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“..This thread is primarily for Cornish Nationalists..

Please to tell us and the world what you want and do not want, we already know some Nationalists do not want Independence, now is the time to say what you do want, and if you do opt for Independence how would the County of Cornwall manage Financially??

Cornish Nationalists Please Spell it out on this thread if it is at all possible.

For those who it may concern, please try to keep it orderly without being too personal.”

By youngcornwall Posted: February 09, 2013

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  • PaddyTrembath  |  February 09 2013, 2:54PM

    YC, without being too personal............................. Many times, on many different threads, you have made comments such as " Don't some nationalists love threads like this, it is the only way they can get any satisfaction to vent their views, some are not too particular where they do their trolling either..." You keep claiming that it is the "Nationalists" that Troll. BUT, You keep posting threads such as this. Is this so you can then sit at your little computer table and attempt to mock, and insult? Is it because you have nothing else in your life worth talking about? It it you that is the Troll? I dare say that you will report this post and have it removed, but that will just confirm what most of us already know, it is you who are a Troll. As for the subject of the thread, if it had been posted by someone else, it might have had some worth, it may have created an interesting discussion. But as it was posted by you, it is clear that that will never happen.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 09 2013, 4:56PM

    by PaddyTrembath "Many times, on many different threads, you have made comments such as Don't some nationalists love threads like this, it is the only way they can get any satisfaction to vent their views." Yes Paddy you are correct, that was my soul intention of starting this thread, what you think my intentions are, are neither here nor there, because you will believe what you wish to believe anyway, now that you have set the scene regarding me and my intentions. Can we now leave this thread to those who wish to use it correctly please, thank you for your contribution? I am not into reporting posts, rather leave them up for the world to see.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 10 2013, 8:36AM

    "For those who it may concern, please try to keep it orderly without being too personal." Not forgetting the forthcoming May elections that are just around the corner, winning hearts and minds and all that.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 10 2013, 2:30PM

    With only two nationalists postings and with one of those postings being already removed by the moderators, (with nothing to do with me I hasten to add) I think it only fair to open this thread to ALL who are interested and wish to contribute something, otherwise just let it drift to the bottom scuppered gone without trace.

  • Carvath  |  February 10 2013, 2:49PM

    I think it's best that way youngcornwall: Most serious people on here would'nt get involved with anything you say due to your past performance.

  • CallingtonFox  |  February 10 2013, 4:02PM

    I asked a similar question some months ago; everyone knew my thoughts so it was obvious I was not trying to 'catch anyone out' but I had one straight reply. You will probably not get any answers, not because of who you are but I suspect because to answer your questions will show how wide ranging the idea of nationalism is and that is too risky for the cause. I was surprised, and irritated, to see two nationalist telling another that he can not be Cornish because he did not agree with them about something; this person is adamant and clear in his beliefs, I even felt angry for him. Until there is one hymn sheet to sing from, their quest for a nation will fail (Nation of peoples). Then we have the question of what next, should a Nation of Peoples actually receive formal recognition?

  • youngcornwall  |  February 10 2013, 7:00PM

    "Then we have the question of what next, should a Nation of Peoples actually receive formal recognition" I thought we would have been inundated with wants and don't wants by now. Recognition has always been a good one. A Rally of Recognition was on the cards at one time, but like everything else, a load of hot air.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 10 2013, 7:43PM

    Before your time the "Recognition Rally" I am on about AnGof, you're only a new boy to this game, and not doing a very good job it must be said, keep your head down a little bit and you might learn something, there is a good lad.

  • Slimslad  |  February 10 2013, 7:51PM

    Let us be honest here. Scotland will not vote to leave the Union. Cornwall will never be an independent "Celtic Nation". England has never been a "Land of Hope and Glory". 20,000 Cornishmen never needed to know the reason why. Please save this post for future reference.

  • Big_Ger  |  February 10 2013, 8:35PM

    The biggest problems for Cornish "nationalists" are threefold. 1. They are represented politically by a hard left socialist party, in a county which does not vote left. 2. They are divided, not unified by thier cause, with a myriad of diversive groupings, all demanding that thier view be prioritised, all with their little bosses and leaders wanting to be king of the castle. 3. As in all nationalist groupings, Cornish "nationalism" attracts deeply unpleasant people who turn people away from the core intent and bring the focus onto themselves.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 11 2013, 9:30AM

    by Big_Ger "3. As in all nationalist groupings, Cornish "nationalism" attracts deeply unpleasant people who turn people away from the core intent and bring the focus onto themselves." This seems to be the case regarding some of those on here, no matter how many times anyone tries to tell them that their unpleasantness is tarring the only political party for Cornwall with the same brush, sadly their unpleasantness is so ingrained, and to be honest they just cannot see their wrong doings. Their own forum is a good epitaph, go on their and say the wrong thing, such as "England" or "County" and many more day today common English words.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 11 2013, 1:31PM

    An independent Cornwall would be an economic failure. You only need to look as far as the ''celtic tiger'' Ireland to see the potential similarities. Some nats ridiculously assume that cornwall would be able to become a sort of tax haven ala channel islands ....as we can see on this forum there are sad gullible ne're do wells who accept this tosh unquestioningly. So the real issue is some degree of devoloution.....at which point we have to look at our unitary authority and only the seriously mentally unstable would give more power to them. Across europe goverment is being shrunk as dictated by austerity. So the irrational idea of a distinguished tribe being resurrected to form a newly invented nation or less dependent region, based on an artificial cultural reenctment is pure fantasy. And rthere is nothing anyone can do to change that :]

  • Tstrunk  |  February 11 2013, 8:14PM

    by AnGof2012Sunday, February 10 2013, 7:02PM "Cornwall Council submitted a document signed on behalf and by all the political parties in Cornwall straight to the English Government. Why would we want a rally you prat?" Cornwall is part of England just like Gloucestershire! There is no English Government. Lets get basics right and then we can move on to the flag waving by 15 or so locals. Cornwall is in England just like Devon.

  • Angof2013  |  February 11 2013, 8:25PM

    In the interest of transparency Tolgus, your post has been reported as a breach of forum rules which state that moderation must not be discussed. I have succeeded though in having many entire threads removed from this forum yet alone individual postings. Fun, isn't it? St Piran's Day approaches English, start counting. Cornwall next to Engerland just like Wales. Cornish not English. (heavens, who would really want to be?)

  • Big_Ger  |  February 11 2013, 8:33PM

    What is this "document" which Angof rants about? Can we get a link to it, or will that just prove that he's been fantasising again.

  • Tolgus  |  February 11 2013, 8:40PM

    "St Piran's Day approaches English, start counting."? Just to say I am no more "English" than you are "Cornish".

  • Tstrunk  |  February 11 2013, 9:04PM

    St Piran's Day is such a great day so many people enjoy the day here in Cornwall and Cornwall is in England just like Lancashire is. London our great capital city is also part of England just like Kernow is. I can't wait for St Piran's day, proud our great Cornwall will be waving our flag with joy.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 11 2013, 9:19PM

    @Tolgus It has been clear for some time that this poster is some kind of plant or something, not forgetting the May elections are just around the corner and politics is a dirty game.

  • Tolgus  |  February 12 2013, 12:02PM

    "It has been clear for some time that this poster is some kind of plant or something." I think you have the truth of it there, youngcornwall. What clinches it for me, is the lack of support this person has from anyone,(and certainly not those that express "nationalist views"). Many of the threads have no replies at all.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 12 2013, 3:36PM

    It seems the way to silence the cornish seperatists is to ask them to provide a coherent plan for what they seek....self rule. When invited to offer thier alternate plan they have, unsurprisingly, nothing to offer.

  • Carvath  |  February 12 2013, 3:42PM

    A few people on here seem to have a comprehension problem and need to re-read the document. It has nothing to do with separation from the UK. Note Wales and Scotland are part of the UK.

  • Maverick84  |  February 24 2013, 8:31PM

    Firstly, I have a more balanced viewpoint. I'm not completely Cornish, culturally I'm part English, part Cornish, although administratively I understand I would have to currently say I'm "English" yes the old Celtic heritage is still strong on that side of my family and I have a lot of inherited knowledge. Also, i'm not a raving militant nationalist, I've done a lot of extensive research into the history as well as being checked against knowledge handed down and of the region as a whole. My only personal agenda is safeguarding and protecting the culture and heritage on that Celtic side of my family, rather than being militantly seperatist. I would say, all they want is their native Celtic culture protected and recognised to safeguard it from extinction including the revival of their native language. Especially after the damage that has been done to it historically (look up the destruction of Glasney college, the 1497 uprising and the prayerbook rebellion). They are historically a royal duchy extraterritorial to England which was cemented in law, i.e. 1337 and 1508. England has forced them to be administered as an ordinary county, even though the duchy rights and privileges are still valid, including their right to veto certain acts of Westminstrer. So yes Cornwall is currently administered as part of England but they are what's left (a rump state) of a conquered native Celtic people and are by no means "English", culturally, ethnically or historically. Anyone who asserts that they are not a native "Celtic" indiginous people really just has not read a history book on the matter, but the most important crucial point of it all is, that the native "Celtic" culture, heritage and national identity is still surviving to this day. That is what still makes them a modern Celtic people, if it didn't still survive, then they wouldn't be and this conversation wouldn't be happening. Now, as for what they want: They by no means wish separation form the UK, they understand that would not be desirable or viable. Firstly, they wish to be recognised under the framework for protection of national minorities and ethnic groups as a native indigenous people. (This much at least they are most certainly owed) along with funding for the language to be brought up inline with the amount of funding other languages get in the UK. They would like Cornish history taught in a Cornish curriculum in schools as well as the revived language up until the age of 16. and most of them want to be separated only from England, not the UK to basically be in a similar situation as Wales, as the 5th home nation, preferably governed locally by a Cornish assembly. Although personally I think it's best to only do that when the time is right, when they've progressed enough as a region so that it's the obvious natural progression. First things first though. They need encorporating into the framework for protection of national minorities and ethnic groups as a recognised indigenous people with increased funding of their revived language in line with what Welsh and Scots Gaelic gets. There, I hope this clarifies a lot

  • Carvath  |  February 24 2013, 9:26PM

    An excellent post Maverick84 from my point of view; I'd go along with all of that.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 25 2013, 10:05AM

    by Maverick84 "I understand I would have to currently say I'm "English" yes the old Celtic heritage is still strong on that side of my family and I have a lot of inherited knowledge. Also, i'm not a raving militant nationalist" You can say what you like and consider being what you like M84. The "raving militant nationalist" you mention are not the problem as I see it, these are clearly depicted and stand out a mile on here and elsewhere, it is the soft speaking types that are the real fly in the ointment for Cornwall, yes the incitement to cause trouble lot, not those who say what they mean.

  • MapSerpren  |  February 25 2013, 11:22AM

    Well said Maverick84. It is my pleasure to work alongside many people who are from England and from further afield who have your exact viewpoint regarding Cornwall.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 25 2013, 1:54PM

    Nearly 90 % of the population of Cornwall identified themselves as not Cornish. It is, therefore, utter non sense to say that Cornwall is a celtic nation. The op asked for FINANCIAL justification of devolvement not asbtract theories on idigenous relativity which as usual ignore the last thousand years of evoloution. M84 highlights exactly why sepertists are so flawed. Thier entire focus is on re-inventing a dead culture . He or she fails miserably to suggest any tangible benefit .

  • TheTruronian  |  February 25 2013, 2:35PM

    55% of London's population are non British. The indigeneous population there are now in a minority. It is still London. Maverick84 has made excellent sense and as Cornwall is widely recognised as a Celtic Nation and European Region in its own right. It follows devolution and recognition is due. H_Trevorrow, your badly written posts littered with spelling and grammatical errors are making less and less sense. May I recommend you compose them on word and apply a spelling and grammar check to avoid yourself embarrassment?

  • TheTruronian  |  February 25 2013, 2:43PM

    H_Trevorrow - this interesting link by the late, great Henry Jenner may assist in correcting your misconceptions and misinformation: http://tinyurl.com/av9nkzc

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 25 2013, 2:51PM

    ....nothing to say re financial implications Truronian?

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 25 2013, 3:59PM

    Did Mr Jenner leave any hints of economic relevance to Cornish independence???? No ? Seems you are rather stuffed then Truronian as you may be required to have an original thought and some economic litteracy all on your own.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 25 2013, 6:20PM

    All these reports on minority staus, huge volumes on constitutional convention available in high gloss, more historical bias than you can shake a stick at, backed by notable worthies in respected establishments {having feathered their own nest}...... BUT not so much as the back of a fagpacket estimate of costs and income.... Suggests to me some body has'nt thought this through.......or they have done the numbers and found them to be a big disadvantage.....the latter in my opinion .

  • Slimslad  |  February 26 2013, 8:14PM

    "55% of London's population are non British. The indigeneous,(sic), population there are now in a minority. It is still London. Has London ever had an "indigenous population"? What London has in common with Cornwall, however, is that neither are a country.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  February 26 2013, 9:22PM

    London could be another Celtic nation slim. Tamar river was the celtic Isis .... Who knows with a bit of cultural twistory... The seventh Celtic nation is born... Hurray Dose'nt matter any more if only a tiny proportion actually are indigenous!

  • TheTruronian  |  February 27 2013, 3:50AM

    Being 'sic' over everything again Newcastle lad? And what vwould you know about Cornwall faux Trevorrow? In fact there are so many of Fishy's sics over your grammar and spelling, it looks like a giant pizza. Malta manages easily, we certainly would. Cornwall, a Celtic Nation. London, a less than English city over in England. And the biggest problem? You English, by a long chalk. Arrogant and still think you rule the world sic. Unwanted and having made a mess of your own country which lays between Cornwall, Wales and Scotland, the Celtic fringe, all you are good for is some of fishy's sic. PS.anyone spotted Taxman100 lately? Perhaps he's gone to throw up - 'sic'. Or maybe he's been banned lol!

  • TheTruronian  |  February 27 2013, 3:52AM

    Better Cornish than English 'faux' Trevorrow. Back to playing with your toy boats perhaps? sic

  • TheTruronian  |  February 27 2013, 3:54AM

    PS. I do understand that the English have a size thing faux Trevorrow. Perhaps you need a little help. Check your spam box maybe? Surgical operations are available sic.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 27 2013, 9:06AM

    "PS.anyone spotted Taxman100 lately? Perhaps he's gone to throw up - 'sic'. Or maybe he's been banned lol!" Not "banned" just fed up with those getting his postings removed unnecessarily, he will be back and continue to expose... "the soft speaking types that are the real fly in the ointment for Cornwall, yes the incitement to cause trouble lot, not those who say what they mean." And mean what they say.

  • Tstrunk  |  February 27 2013, 9:45AM

    Youngcornwall, "just fed up with those getting his postings removed" It is the only tactic the "the big boys" had/have....but as we see their("nasty nats") delusion based persecution complexes aren't health either!

  • youngcornwall  |  February 27 2013, 1:13PM

    by PaddyTrembath "Just in passing, you know this because................................?" Because of what he said prior to his postings going missing, I will not say anymore on this, as discussing postings that have been removed, contravenes house rules. Were you not banned at one time for the excess use of the report button on here PT, I suppose yours were all unnecessary, and needed removing? How you would dearly love to get your hands on the editing of posts on this forum.

  • CallingtonFox  |  February 27 2013, 2:40PM

    "And the biggest problem? You English, by a long chalk. Arrogant and still think you rule the world sic. Unwanted and having made a mess of your own country which lays between Cornwall, Wales and Scotland, the Celtic fringe, all you are good for is some of fishy's sic." Well, there is a nice well researched non-biased, non-race based little rant for us to enjoy. Why don't you actually do some real research for a change using more sources than your usual support your own agenda ones? Go on, have a go at it, proper historical research, you might just learn something different; it will not hurt you.

  • youngcornwall  |  February 28 2013, 9:15AM

    "Were you not banned at one time for the excess use of the report button on here PT, I suppose yours were all unnecessary, and needed removing? How you would dearly love to get your hands on the editing of posts on this forum." Come on Paddy keep up.

  • Taxman100  |  February 28 2013, 12:06PM

    I have come to the conclusion that the tail (the Neo-Celts) are trying to wag the dog (aka, the Cornish people like myself). Maybe, it is about time our politicians, at National and local level, were made to understand the Neo-Celts only represent a minute group of people. We can rightly argue the point as in recent General Elections the Nationalist Party(s) of Cornwall only gained about 2% of the Cornish vote, and in local elections about 4.5%. Also, we may point out that only 0.06% of the Cornish population speak the revived Cornish language and a further 0.425% are currently studying it, and it has been around for over 100 years without success. Therefore, there can be no reason for the Cornish taxpayer to support it further. There is anti-English sentiment amongst some on this site who claim to be Cornish. How do they reconcile this when most of our Counties most famous sons were great supporters of the "English Establishment". Two examples are, Bishop Trelawny and Richard Travithick. The former was not only a Bishop but also an hereditary Baronet, and his son served in the Royal Navy. The latter was commemorated by the Cornish people in Westminster Abbey, the epitome of Englishness. He is also known to have done some of his best work when in London - where most of his essential financial support was generated. Finally, when having a spring clean of the library I found a 16 page booklet about the Helston Flora (Furry) Dance. It is dated 1898 (that is about 4 years before the Cornish Nationalists first created their "Ancient Cornish language"). The booklet is embossed with the number, 002, and was published by the Clifton ******* Press, with a forward by RA Pascoe and contributions by, AD Boscowan, and N Trengrouse. Illustrations by The Reverend MJ Vivyan MA(). It states, "The enthralling prelude to the street dancing is Hal-an-Tow. An age old play performed by the local children depicting the slaying of the profane Celtic Dragon by our County's Patron Saint, St. George." This is definitely - well in my opinion - Cornish history, and it does not take us back to the Dark Ages - about which we know very little!

  • MapSerpren  |  February 28 2013, 12:14PM

    A common mistake Taxman100. It is St. Michael.

  • Taxman100  |  February 28 2013, 1:25PM

    MapSerpren. I would agree with you it should be St. Michael. However, the book states, St. George. So, who am I I to undermine the written works of my ancestors?

  • youngcornwall  |  February 28 2013, 1:47PM

    "There is anti-English sentiment amongst some on this site who claim to be Cornish. How do they reconcile this when most of our Counties most famous sons were great supporters of the "English Establishment"" Simple, in their opinion, they would say, "most famous sons and daughters were wrong" and to justify this because many have married English partners, they will go on to say "maybe right in their time but not in our times", you see you cannot win with those who are so empty and need to find their own worth.

  • Taxman100  |  February 28 2013, 2:28PM

    YC. What you are suggesting is the Neo-Celts believe they, and only they, are correct, and believe they are the true guardians of our Cornish history". Wouldn't that be a little extreme, even for the Neo-Celt?

  • youngcornwall  |  February 28 2013, 4:00PM

    by Taxman100 "YC. What you are suggesting is the Neo-Celts believe they, and only they, are correct" What I am saying the history that they are really interested in, is the history of yesterday and of this morning, history of bygone times is just a matter of interpretation to them, who can regurgitate the most and the quickest, the real truth is immaterial to the nats they just want their own way nothing more nothing less and will jump on any bandwagon to get it.

  • Taxman100  |  March 01 2013, 10:07AM

    YC. I am inclined to agree with you. I gave up reading and believing Fairy Tales, and Myths & Legends when I was a young child - although at the time I enjoyed the tales immensely. It seems to me that some 'scholars' in the self-serving academic underworld and the Neo-Celts & Nationalists believe we are still children. Either that, or they accept our education system has taken a recent nosedive. Thankfully, we were educated before the downturn occurred!

  • TheCelt  |  March 01 2013, 11:11AM

    A federal UK. J.T. MA Celtic Studies; University of Wales (Trinity St. David) 2008

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