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“I would like to obtain serious and considered feedback from those who use this Forum in respect of what comprises, and at what monetary level, should a 'Living Wage' be set - or should one be set at all?

General:
1. The Minimum Wage for an adult is currently set at £6.19 per hour.
2. It is suggested that the Minimum Wage be raised to £7.20: which a quango suggests equates to a Living Wage (although they do not specify how many hours should be worked).
3. What should be considered for inclusion within the calculation for a Minimum/Living Wage - assuming both were the same?
4. Should a Minimum/Living Wage be set Nationally or locally?
5. Any other relevant comments you would like to make.”

By Taxman100 Posted: October 29, 2012

41 comments

41 replies

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  • Carvath  |  October 29 2012, 3:58PM

    It's a good idea IMO and a lot of the information is given in this article and its attachments: http://tinyurl.com/9ur9v3w I think some localism is appropriate to reflect cost of living, for example like the inner and outer London Weightings in the Public Service.

  • youngcornwall  |  October 29 2012, 4:49PM

    The biggest majority of my working life consisted of working on piecework, working in a team or individually, with a downtime payment if there was not enough work for one reason or another. There must be an incentive to work and graft, at the end of the day we normally only go to work to earn money, turn out the work and everybody is happy, a good bonus system is another good thing if piecework is not possible, let the workers set how much they want to earn by the amount of work they turn out. A national minimum must be set as a guideline to keep employers up to date, otherwise they tend to forget.

  • barrtribe  |  October 29 2012, 7:45PM

    I think NMW should be set lower so that firms that could do with more staff can afford to employ more , then the government top up the wage to a nationally set minimum. I believe that way there will be more people working but less benefits being paid out over all. That way there will be more jobs, less people on full benefits, more people paying taxes. even if people dont paticulary enjoy their job ; it has been proven that overall physical and mental health improves. The top up could come through Paye therefore the employee gets a normal hourly rate made up from employer and state that is financed through the tax. Employer pays less tax. therefore no need for any increase in systems to then pay benefits separate to wages; it's sorted at source.

  • Slimslad  |  October 29 2012, 8:28PM

    The Living Wage Foundation http://tinyurl.com/c4oesta

  • Truro_Kernow  |  October 29 2012, 9:00PM

    The minimum wage set here is less than those of Germany, France, The Netherlands, Belgium, Eire, Monacco (population 36,000), San Marino (population 31,700) Luxembourg (population 500,000) and so on. The population of Kernow is 500,000. Note that Kernow's population is greater than those of Luxembourg, Monacco and San Marino. I thing this a lesson which could be learned. The UK is fast failing and rotten from the top down! Kernow bys vyken!

  • Slimslad  |  October 29 2012, 9:13PM

    A Living Wage Employer ensures that all employees are paid at least the Living Wage. This includes individuals who work on a regular basis at your premises for a subcontractor, such as cleaners or security staff. Living Wage employers report improved morale, lower turn over of staff, reduced absenteeism, increased productivity and improved customer service. "Between them, the employers in London who commit to paying a Living Wage have lifted more than 10,000 families out of working poverty. Over 140 employers from every sector are now paying a living wage. The Living Wage Employer mark recognises and celebrates this leadership. The accreditation process is simple and is open to employers already paying the living wage, or those committed to an agreed timetable of implementation. Accredited Living Wage Employers are recognised during Living Wage Week and at the annual Living Wage Awards, hosted by KPMG and the Mayor of London. Over 100 top employers have made a public commitment to the Living Wage. Living Wage Foundation will launch the list of accredited employers during the first annual Living Wage Week which will take place 4th-10th November 2012. " (The Living Wage Foundation, 2012)

  • Taxman100  |  November 03 2012, 11:06AM

    Thank you for your comments. They are broadly in line with the views held by most organisations throughout the UK and Europe, and also of the detailed research carried out by independent organisations and charities. I fear TruroKernow cannot put aside his personal politics even when commenting about a situation which adversely affects many thousands of people across the UK & Europe. He comments countries x, y & z pay a higher minimum wage but fails to make a comparison with the various cost of living indexes/purchasing power indexes. etc. Had he have done so, and he says he speaks a number of European languages, he would realise how unhelpful his comments were. This might help, http://tinyurl.com/24abjbp, but even then there are greater financial forces at play which distort all data. ie: politically motivated data manipulation. Thank you for your help.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 03 2012, 7:26PM

    You wouldn't have had anything useful from Truro_Kernow, it appears he is a young troll, who, I suspect, has also been knocked back by the British Army.

  • Carvath  |  November 03 2012, 9:42PM
  • CallingtonFox  |  November 03 2012, 11:09PM

    I well remember the fight by some against equal pay for women; how it would destroy jobs, it never did. I remember those who fought against a minimum wage; how it would destroy jobs, it never did. Now we see the next step towards decent remuneration of the workforce; wait for it, 'it will destroy jobs', and it won't. It is true that a balance has to be born in mind so as not to cripple employers but at the same time we must remember that some of those who fight against such ideas as better wages are more than likely to be thinking, not 'it will cost jobs' but 'it will cost me'.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 04 2012, 1:15AM

    Better my postings than the very obviously mythical adventures of a 'Boy's Own' wannabee who, fancying himself as a mythical Georgie Flag waving 'Bulldog Drummond' hero, talks of voyages to the bottom of the sea and to the top of distant mountains, eh Taxman100? Don't you think, Callington Fox or have you had your tailed chewed by some Colonel Blimp's pack of hounds? Kernow bys vyken!

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 04 2012, 1:22AM

    Hello young troll, your wit is truly adult. Please post more.

  • Taxman100  |  November 04 2012, 8:57AM

    Again TK shows his true colours. All he can do is abuse others; yet it is he who is beneath contempt. He has nothing constructive to offer any debate and highlights all that is wrong with the Nationalist mantra. Just to clarify things TK. Yes, I did serve in a Highland Regiment for 32 years, and commanded it for 2.5 years. I did serve in 22 Regiment for almost 10 years. Yes I have climbed Everest. Yes, I have been to the North Pole and worked on research at the Antarctic Station (2 seasons), and yes, I have assisted a successful climb of K2. I don't have to hide what I have done; but, what have you done that gives you the right to criticise others who have done something with their life? Go back to college and learn something of value.

  • Carvath  |  November 04 2012, 11:27AM

    Things are beginning to move: http://tinyurl.com/d9jk4cw

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 04 2012, 11:51AM

    Excellent stuff!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 04 2012, 2:15PM

    I have plenty of records of your unpleasant posts Taxman100. I have no need to go back to college thanks. I already have my Masters and am doing rather well for myself. I also did it off my own back and didn't need to play tin soldiers in the declining army to gain sponsorship! Kernow bys vyken!

  • Cadoc  |  November 04 2012, 3:25PM

    Ref. by Taxman100 - Sunday, November 04 2012, 8:57AM Rarely have I read such self bloated, verbose, tax payer funded nonsense on this forum! We are not under your command nor do we all respect your 'achievements' if they may be called as much. And indeed, I grieve to think that my hard earned taxes have been spent in this manner. An utter disgrace!

  • Slimslad  |  November 04 2012, 3:52PM

    More attempts by the usual crew to incite other posters to anger, in order to get them banned. Childish and so transparent. LOL

  • Cadoc  |  November 04 2012, 4:59PM

    Re.by Slimslad - Sunday, November 04 2012, 3:52PM And who, or perhaps more appropiately what are you, Sir?

  • Taxman100  |  November 05 2012, 9:59AM

    TK, Cadoc. Perhaps, it is because people get off their rear end and stop playing petty politics that ensures matters such as this change for the better.

  • Taxman100  |  November 05 2012, 10:02AM

    TK, Cadoc. Perhaps, it is because people get off their rear end and stop playing petty politics that ensures matters such as this change for the better. Reading comments from those who have had the decency to address the problem rather than engage in unnecessary abuse is what this Forum should be about - and, at one time was about!

  • Slimslad  |  November 05 2012, 2:08PM

    Living wage: Ed Miliband pledge over government contracts Ed Miliband has unveiled plans to deliver a "living wage" of at least £7.45 per hour for millions of people, if Labour wins the next election. http://tinyurl.com/9we9oab

  • BluePeacock  |  November 06 2012, 12:47AM

    I'd be interested to learn if everyone gets this wage if they already have employment, or whether it is being made as an incentive to people who may not have a job, or wish to have one, but prefer to be on benefits, however I don't think a general rate of pay would go this high.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  November 06 2012, 12:50AM

    You could be paid a "living wage" of £10 an hour, but if you are only able to find a part time job of, say, 15 hours a week, you would still only earn £150 a week, or £7,821 a year. Not exactly a "Living" wage. What needs to be addressed, as importantly as an hourly rate, is the over abundance of part time work that is on offer. For a "living wage" to mean anything, it must result in an actual Living Wage.

  • youngcornwall  |  November 06 2012, 9:12AM

    Whatever a living wage maybe it is the consumers that ends up paying the wage indirectly, saying that, a living wage should be set well above any benefits that can be obtained, and if part time working is all that is available, try getting on your bike.

  • Taxman100  |  November 06 2012, 9:47AM

    Blue Peacock. Only the Minimum Wage can be imposed on businesses. The Living Wage, proposed at £7.20/7.45, would be voluntary. There are already a number of businesses who have been encouraged to adopt the latter and found it to be beneficial to themselves and to their employees. Do you think this is the way forward? YC. Agreed in principal. Also,the mobility of labour has proven to be the keystone of Germany's success - but as they say, 'that's a different tale'.

  • poldice  |  November 06 2012, 10:04AM

    THE $64,000 QUESTION BEING.... could the quangocrats exist on £7.20p per hour? Any good business that that values its staff (which is an essential precursor to being a good business) will reward its staff accordingly, it is the less good businesses that treat staff as chattels by paying the minimum wage that the attention needs to focus on. The simple bottom line being that an adult earnig minimum wage must find it incredibly difficult to function at that level so maybe it is an incentive to seek to better oneself?

  • Taxman100  |  November 06 2012, 11:23AM

    Poldice. Quangos are some of the greediest businesses/charities (if they are either) in existence. Slowly, but surely, good and well managed businesses are adopting the Living Wage. However, as you rightly say, it should not act as a deterrent to those who wish to improve their future employment prospects. To achieve strides in that direction it would be necessary for our complete education system to work in close cooperation with businesses/industries, great and small - this is already happening, although much, much, more needs to be done! One thing I do know for certain. Good, well paid jobs do not just walk in through the door; you have to go and find them - wherever they may be!

  • JJLee  |  November 06 2012, 12:09PM

    An impossible question to answer, as all things are relative. Fool's gold, it looks like you have more, sounds like you have more. In truth you are just as poor as you were before, only paying tax.

  • Carvath  |  November 07 2012, 7:27AM

    Gets better all the time: http://tinyurl.com/cvc2x3h

  • Taxman100  |  November 07 2012, 10:03AM

    JJLee. When I first became involved in this campaign some months ago my initial thoughts were the same as yours. I have now learned this is not really about the Minimum Wage or the Living Wage. It is about persuading employers, great and small, to pay their employees a wage commensurate with the work they do. The "Living Wage" is simply a step in that direction.

  • youngcornwall  |  November 07 2012, 4:38PM

    The living wage will never be enough, as soon as the living wage is increased, the goods or services that are manufactured by those who receive the increase in the living wage, will be put up to offset the increase employers have to pay the employees. No wage increase and no price rises, we may have a little stability then.

  • barrtribe  |  November 07 2012, 5:49PM

    totally agree youngercornwall.

  • Taxman100  |  November 08 2012, 9:49AM

    YC. What you say is of course true. However, can it possibly be right for employers to pay their staff such low wages? Either the job exists and the employee is paid his worth, or, the job does not truly exist and the employee is being 'utilised' in a menial manner to boost the company's profit margin. Any addition costs paid by the the employer in the form of increased wages will, sooner or later, find its way into the cost of the company's services or product. By no stretch of the imagination are my politics left-wing. That said, I still believe, indeed have always believed, a 'man is worthy of his hire'.

  • BluePeacock  |  November 08 2012, 9:51PM

    The Living Wage would show employees that they are more appreciated or their job is worthwhile yet in Cornwall where there are few full time positions and no to little career prospects i doubt it would ever be an issue to anyone or business, just an interesting discussion point. If companies truly wished to value their staff part or full time they could pay whatever wage they wish regardless of a set wage which is volentary. Perhaps their workers would be very happy however it would have to be a booming business in these times. A pound higher per hour wpuld still be a benefit on part time wage. Extra eight pounds a day times by three=£24 a week. Nearly a whole days worth. Excellant :D.

  • JJLee  |  November 09 2012, 8:28AM

    If you earn the level of money at question here and want to earn more, could I point you towards our institutes of learning rather than praying for a miracle This is a political gimmick, so long as employers have people willing to work for such low rates, guess what . They will pay low rates .

  • Taxman100  |  November 09 2012, 10:32AM

    BlkuePeacock. I agree with you entirely, and businesses of all types must come to value their staff rather than see them simply as an expense on their balance sheet. JJLee. Again, agreed, except it is not a gimmick to pay an employee their true worth. The way to a better job is undoubtedly through better education, and in that respect I think the country needs to get a grip. I would support the return of Grammar Schools for the academically minded and Technical Colleges for those who are not. Businesses are always complaining about what they perceive as being a 'skills shortage'. If that is the case then let us send our most academically gifted students, irrespective of social background, to our best Universities, and provide the best quality skills training through Technical Colleges and Apprenticeships! In that way we will once again be able to produce the engineers, scientists, plumbers, electricians etc., we so desperately need if we are to make our way in the very competitive Global market. Tragically, and it is happening in Cornwall, we are wasting our children's time teaching them the Cornish language; which will not serve them well when they enter the future labour market. It is essential the core subjects are taught and taught well. ie: English, Mathematics, and the Sciences. I know some will disagree with my comments, but time will reveal the truth! The problem is, we do not have time!

  • Taxman100  |  November 09 2012, 10:32AM

    BlkuePeacock. I agree with you entirely, and businesses of all types must come to value their staff rather than see them simply as an expense on their balance sheet. JJLee. Again, agreed, except it is not a gimmick to pay an employee their true worth. The way to a better job is undoubtedly through better education, and in that respect I think the country needs to get a grip. I would support the return of Grammar Schools for the academically minded and Technical Colleges for those who are not. Businesses are always complaining about what they perceive as being a 'skills shortage'. If that is the case then let us send our most academically gifted students, irrespective of social background, to our best Universities, and provide the best quality skills training through Technical Colleges and Apprenticeships! In that way we will once again be able to produce the engineers, scientists, plumbers, electricians etc., we so desperately need if we are to make our way in the very competitive Global market. Tragically, and it is happening in Cornwall, we are wasting our children's time teaching them the Cornish language; which will not serve them well when they enter the future labour market. It is essential the core subjects are taught and taught well. ie: English, Mathematics, and the Sciences. I know some will disagree with my comments, but time will reveal the truth! The problem is, we do not have time!

  • PaddyTrembath  |  November 09 2012, 10:54PM

    Taxman100 wrote:- "Tragically, and it is happening in Cornwall, we are wasting our children's time teaching them the Cornish language; which will not serve them well when they enter the future labour market. It is essential the core subjects are taught and taught well. ie: English, Mathematics, and the Sciences." When was the last time you were actually in a school?

  • Taxman100  |  November 10 2012, 9:48AM

    PT. A few weeks ago! I thought you might at least have had something to contribute to the the thread. Sadly, not - except for the well trodden Nationalist path!

  • PaddyTrembath  |  November 11 2012, 12:14AM

    I'm sorry Taxman100, I thought that the post I made on Tuesday, November 06 2012, at 12:50AM, was a contribution to the thread. I'm glad you have recently been in a school, did you notice the lessons being taught there? How much time was being "wasted" teaching the kids Cornish in this school you visited? As for the return of Grammar schools and Technical Colleges, I wholeheartedly agree. Children learn differently, children have different strengths and weaknesses, different talents. The type of education that works for one child is not necessarily going to be suitable for another. There are academically minded children, and there are practically minded children, both should be catered for, and both should be provided with an environment where there particular skills and talents can flourish.

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