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“..How will you Vote? …

Now that it looks as if we are going to get a vote..

http://tinyurl.com/ad4nevc

Do you know enough about it, or like me not too sure?”

By youngcornwall Posted: January 23, 2013

48 comments

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  • youngcornwall  |  January 23 2013, 11:12AM

    Sorry, try this one. http://tinyurl.com/a8lyumf

  • youngcornwall  |  January 23 2013, 1:49PM

    If David Cameron does not get the best deal for the British people, will he vote to come out of the EU? We need to know this before the next general election I would have thought, at this moment in time the MP will not answer the leader of the oppositions question on this, strange but it seems to be that way. http://tinyurl.com/bjeuka3 We know where UKIP stands on this we don't. http://tinyurl.com/aysj7dt

  • AnGof2012  |  January 23 2013, 2:33PM

    If the artificially created political construct of UK leave the EU, it will consign it to the back waters. Perhaps the best place for it. I shall vote to stay IN the EU. I am not a 'Little Englander'.

  • Big_Ger  |  January 23 2013, 7:40PM

    I will vote to leave. The European superstate experiment has been a disaster for the UK.

  • Gurnards_Head  |  January 23 2013, 11:30PM

    Correction... may get a referendum in 2017... if and a very big if... always remebering that if is a amall word with a big meaning... the NASTY PARTY WIN THE 2015 ELECTION.

  • youngcornwall  |  January 24 2013, 9:15AM

    ……..Assuming we do have a vote…… I voted to join the common market as it was known then because my employer said it would be good for their business, at this moment in time GKN seem to be still doing well, so their advice was a good one all those years ago, not only for the company but for employees alike. Reversing this now and coming out of the EU, will it be beneficial for the country as a whole?

  • AnGof2012  |  January 24 2013, 10:39AM

    Well put Gurnards Head. The Nasty Party are very unlikely to be re elected and we must all do our best to see to that. Further, it is extremely possible that the Nasty Party might tear itself apart over this as it does have a pro EU side. The only way ahead is the end of the nation states of Europe and a Europe of regions each self governing. We have nothing in common with London. We have nothing in common with the North East. They have nothing in common with us. Belgium and Spain are becoming increasingly regionalised and many other EU countries are heavily federalised. The EU has been a great success. Free trade, free movement of people and so on. Little Englanders would like to pull up the drawbridge but we are dependant on Europe because we are in Europe. As the British state crumbles we shall be increasingly looking to Europe and anyone looking at the strength of the pound which is fast declining will realise that. The UK has had it thankfully. A Europe of regions is the only way.

  • Slimslad  |  January 24 2013, 3:10PM

    "If the artificially created political construct of UK leave the EU, it will consign it to the back waters. Which would leave England,(including Cornwall), outside of Europe. Unable to negotiate terms on any sort of independence similar to the the Catalans and the Basques through Brussels.

  • Slimslad  |  January 24 2013, 4:50PM

    The Crisis of National Identity The nature of European nationalism, in many ways, has changed. While the nationalism that underlined two world wars has largely subsided, notably spurred on by European Union integration, a modified form is still alive and well in Europe. However, rather than German or Italian, modern day nationalism is more likely to be intrastate, found in Scotland or Flanders. Some of these groups' nationalist demands date back centuries, but now the issue of sub-nationalism is commonplace, and the central governments of many multi-ethnic states must determine how to manage these nationalist demands. http://tinyurl.com/a63fl5f

  • AnGof2012  |  January 24 2013, 6:44PM

    Very obvious geographical error there Slimslad. Cornwall lays next to England a bit like Wales. How are calls for devolution going in the North East, by the way?

  • AnGof2012  |  January 24 2013, 7:47PM

    Of course, as well as being an Observer Member of the British Irish Council, Cornwall is also represented regionally on many European bodies including the Conference of Peripheral Maritime Regions of Europe unlike England.

  • CallingtonFox  |  January 24 2013, 8:40PM

    We can not escape that no country, or even the United Kingdom, can survive in isolation; to leave the E.U, I believe would be a dangerous move. However, the E.U does certainly need a lot of restructuring in regards to powers and its financial controls, in my opinion. It is also worth bearing in mind that much of what anti-European Union press and politicians tell us is heavily biased and is often just plain rubbish. For a quick example, remember the 'straight banana' 'scandal', where all bananas sold in Europe must be straight? That was total cr*p; I spoke to an M.E.P at the time and he explained how it was yet another scare story born from a discussion that had never got, and was never going to get, off the ground; but those who hated the Union jumped on it.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 25 2013, 12:21AM

    youngcornwall wrote:- "I voted to join the common market as it was known then because my employer said it would be good for their business........................." Actually, unless you are a retired MP, and a very old one at that, you most definitely did not "vote to join the Common Market". Some 2 years after joining, you were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum asking if you wished to stay in the Common Market, which resulted in a resounding "Yes" vote, (67% from a 65% turnout). Over 2/3's of those who cared enough to vote wished to remain IN the European Economic Community, the Common Market. That was in 1975 by the way. As for how I would vote now? It would all depend on the results of the re-negotiations of the terms of our membership, and how that would effect us here in Cornwall. At present, Cornwall is benefiting from EU membership, benefiting in a way that it would never have done if it were left to our friends in Westminster. Just what the situation would be in 5 years time, is anyone's guess, but on past performance, I would put money on it being in Cornwall's interests to remain in.

  • youngcornwall  |  January 25 2013, 9:31AM

    "Some 2 years after joining, you were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum asking if you wished to stay in the Common Market, which resulted in a resounding "Yes" vote," And this country has benefited with full and plenty ever since. I take your point on Cornwall, it truly does need a good provider to continue to suckle on.

  • Slimslad  |  January 25 2013, 10:45AM

    These nats live in a land of myths and mist. "We are just like Guernsey/Jersey/Iceland/Luxembourg,(please delete as applicable)"

  • Tstrunk  |  January 25 2013, 10:46AM

    "if it were left to our friends in Westminster" You need to loose that chip on shoulder. We all get to vote and choose our parties if no you one supports your idea,who's fault is that? You are British after all and some small point to show this are pounds and pints, these items defined ourselves and although small on the scale of the bigger picture show we are united in culture.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 25 2013, 11:05AM

    On the subject of Europe most people don't even understand what it is all about. That there are two areas that are completely separate with regard to law making within Europe and how these laws impact on us here in the UK on a daily bases. The UK became a member of the EU on the 1st of January 1973 and before that we had sign upto the 'European Convention on Human Rights in 1951 but were not require to complie with laws made under ECHR until 1998. These two things are completey different areas of law making but if you ask jo public in the street to explain any of this and you will see the real problem, she/he can't. It is a very sad fact.

  • Lafrowda  |  January 25 2013, 11:33AM

    Time to unlock from the E.U. before it self destructs like the centralist USSR.

  • Slimslad  |  January 25 2013, 12:01PM

    "Time to unlock from the E.U. before it self destructs like the centralist USSR."? Except the "centralist USSR" replaced the Russian Empire... Which was formed by conquest, not consent.

  • youngcornwall  |  January 25 2013, 1:44PM

    by Tstrunk "You need to loose that chip on shoulder. We all get to vote and choose our parties if no you one supports your idea,who's fault is that?" You are correct in what you say Tstrunk "if no one supports your idea, whose fault is that?" Blaming everyone and their dog isn't going to help anyone, it is reassuring in one respect though, they are but a few and of no significance really. What is interesting about all this is how many votes UKIP are going to gain out of all this, it looks as if they could do pretty well.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 25 2013, 2:19PM

    Another thread used to have a "dig" at those nasty nats. Talk about "chips on shoulders". The op asked how we would vote, I answered, giving my reasons. Now I see the real reason for the thread, not that I am surprised, I should treat it with the contempt it deserves. But, if Tstrunk would like to try to show that Cornwall would have been better off without the help it has been given from the EU, how Westminster would have treated us better, then I'm all ears. Please bear in mind that Westminster argued against our being "awarded" Objective One Funding, whilst having sat on their backsides doing as little as possible for Cornwall themselves.

  • youngcornwall  |  January 25 2013, 2:39PM

    What is interesting about all this is how many votes UKIP are going to gain out of all this, it looks as if they could do pretty well.

  • barrtribe  |  January 25 2013, 3:22PM

    WE get the rulers we deserve but I vote out :).

  • Slimslad  |  January 25 2013, 3:46PM

    "What is interesting about all this is how many votes UKIP are going to gain out of all this, it looks as if they could do pretty well."? Why do you think the Tories "promised" a referendum AFTER the next election? They are terrified to lose voters to UKIP, who are the nearest right-wing alternative to the Tories.

  • Slimslad  |  January 25 2013, 4:16PM

    "Another thread used to have a "dig" at those nasty nats."? Or another chance for the nats to cry "woe is me"? Persecuted by the "English Imperialists",(who might actually be lizards inside human skins).

  • youngcornwall  |  January 25 2013, 4:21PM

    Yes the Tories and UKIP fighting for the same seat could only let Labour in the back door. Regarding Cornwall UKIP seems to be a very good alternative unless Labour can come up with the goods that is, not that I know that much about UKIP.

  • Slimslad  |  January 25 2013, 7:40PM

    UKIP..... The "acceptable face" of fascism, in my opinion.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 26 2013, 9:43AM

    Paddy it is your lack of understanding about how The UK Government works along with the EU. Law making is what Government is about and now we are loosing that to unelected people. Ask the fishermen of Cornwall about the EU, their reply will highlight some issues that many think are detrimental to not only Cornwall but the whole of the way the UK runs its economy. Yes objective one funding did some good things, can you name those things? Tremough, Eden, a film studio, Newquay airport, a posh chef to train some troubled kids, a book store type business, help to prop up a pasty company the list is long. Which ones did you thing to be good and which ones didn't you like? Please add some more!

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 26 2013, 10:36AM

    Tstrunk, Government is about more than just making laws, it is about people, finance,and a whole host of other things as well. Law making is just a small part of what Government is about. The whole point about Objective One and it's follow on Convergence funding, is that none of those things you list, and many more, good or bad, successful, of major flop, would not even have seen the light of day had it been left to "our friends in Westminster". There are many other things, too numerous to mention, but not yet enough, that have happened, that have been brought about because of the EU, and/or other European treaties and organisations, that have been beneficial to Cornwall and the Cornish, that would, once again, not have seen the light of day if it had been left to "our friends in Westminster". Now, how about answering my question:- "But, if Tstrunk would like to try to show that Cornwall would have been better off without the help it has been given from the EU, how Westminster would have treated us better, then I'm all ears. Please bear in mind that Westminster argued against our being "awarded" Objective One Funding, whilst having sat on their backsides doing as little as possible for Cornwall themselves."

  • youngcornwall  |  January 26 2013, 3:39PM

    "There are many other things, too numerous to mention, but not yet enough, that have happened, that have been brought about because of the EU, and/or other European treaties and organisations, that have been beneficial to Cornwall and the Cornish, that would, once again, not have seen the light of day if it had been left to "our friends in Westminster"." Sounds like the drug addict more worried about getting a regular fix to me. When is Cornwall going to be self efficient if ever, or are some resigned to the fact that Cornwall will always need to be bottle fed? Time to get away from this give me give me attitude before it gets too incrusted and ingrained into the younger generations way of thinking.

  • youngcornwall  |  January 26 2013, 8:43PM

    Self sufficient, even.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 26 2013, 11:15PM

    by PaddyTrembathSaturday, January 26 2013, 10:36AM "Tstrunk, Government is about more than just making laws, it is about people, finance,and a whole host of other things as well. Law making is just a small part of what Government is about." Are trolling me? I hope you are as that statement would show your understanding about government is flawed. Let me explain, Government in the UK known as the 'executive' and is about having a majority so they then can pass their laws. They create legislation which forms the way the Country is run, this legislative law is about everything from car mots, hospitals, pub opening times, road building, public and private laws, "finance,and a whole host of other things as well." And the UK parliament is highest source of law making in the UK. An MP will spent his time voting on laws, attending debates about proposed laws/bills raising issues that concern his constituents(these will be law based problems) also they attend function at places such as schools here parents/teachers will raise issues good or bad so as the MP is informed, this then will help form policy. That policy will be turned into legislation, hopefully if they have the majority when comes to voting! They do a few other things i think but It is all about law as that is how the Country runs. As for Objective One Funding, you haven't identified a single area of spending that proves it was worth it or put to good use. And you avoided my fisherman's point.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 12:08AM

    That should have said, Are you trolling me?

  • Carvath  |  January 27 2013, 1:09AM

    I would certainly vote to stay in the EU for both Cornwall's and Britain's sake, economically mainly. In the case of Cornwall, the Objective 1 and now the Convergence Fund has been invaluable. For Britain as a whole it is a massive market. Regarding EU laws, I see most as being more appropriate to the 20th and 21th Centuries than many previous UK laws eg. opening times. So from that point of view I don't have a problem.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 27 2013, 1:16AM

    Tstrunk, Law making is not what government is about, it is a/the tool it uses to achieve what it is about. I did not state that Objective one was worth it or not, when looked at in relation to how it was used, I merely made the point that it was there, given by the EU to help Cornwall get back on it's feet, as opposed to the large nothing that "our friends in Westminster" were offering. Objective One's "worth" is a completely different topic. Now, how about answering my question:- "But, if Tstrunk would like to try to show that Cornwall would have been better off without the help it has been given from the EU, how Westminster would have treated us better, then I'm all ears. Please bear in mind that Westminster argued against our being "awarded" Objective One Funding, whilst having sat on their backsides doing as little as possible for Cornwall themselves." As for your "Fisherman's point", the quotas and regulations imposed on the Fishermen are due to evidence provided by scientists and environmentalists of ALL European nationalities, including British.You may disagree with the evidence, you may disagree with the rules, but what evidence do you have that a British government, outside of the EU, would not have agreed with them, and imposed similar, or even tighter, quotas and regulations? None. Why not ask the Coal miners what Westminster did for them, (mind you, the union didn't help much either), or the Shipbuilders, or the steelworkers, or the Tin miners, or the..........................................or was that the fault of the EU as well. I get the strong impression that the one with a chip on their shoulder here is you. And, no, I am not "Trolling you", I am disagreeing with you.

  • AnGof2012  |  January 27 2013, 5:11AM

    The Nasty Party, UKIP, the EDL, the BNP, all unpleasant creations of the English right. All would be better employed bending bananas after Brussels has straightened them out! Give Cornwall and the other occupied Nations of the British Isles the powers to negotiate our own fishing quotas directly with the federal European Government. Set us free from the Bullingdon Boys of London town!

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 10:24AM

    "Tstrunk, Law making is not what government is about, it is a/the tool it uses to achieve what it is about... So what is it about? Pleas explain? As so far you have shown you know very little Government. "I did not state that Objective one was worth it or not". So what in your opinion was good regarding the spending of the money and what wasn't good? Now, how about answering my question:- "But, if Tstrunk would like to try to show that Cornwall would have been better off without the help it has been given from the EU," I can't and haven't put forward that I can show anything, it is your chip on shoulder argument. I am have merely pointed out you don't understand the problem with EU law making and the UK Government. And so far you don't seem to have a clue. As for your "Fisherman's point", the quotas and regulations imposed on the Fishermen are due to evidence provided by scientists and environmentalists of ALL European nationalities, including British.You may disagree with the evidence... Read the this for starters: http://tinyurl.com/bx8xt4n Tell your story/view to the fisherman of Cornwall how disgraceful you dont support them and I wonder if you live in Cornwall with that kind of backing of EU ploicy! Once again you are hitting out while not having a clue, this is a patten that shows you want to blame the UK Government but when asked to explain your points you can't. The UK is signed up to the EU this is a good thing on the whole, the need to be part of Europe is a natural one. The things Cameron said on the subject are more or less going to happen and the Eurozone needs a settlement when comes to EU members outside that zone.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 10:39AM

    The link should have been this one, http://tinyurl.com/ao6j3kp

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 10:45AM

    Youngcornwall "Sounds like the drug addict more worried about getting a regular fix to me." Good point.

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 11:14AM

    by CarvathSunday, January 27 2013, 1:09AM "I would certainly vote to stay in the EU for both Cornwall's and Britain's sake, economically mainly. In the case of Cornwall, the Objective 1 and now the Convergence Fund has been invaluable. For Britain as a whole it is a massive market." I agree with your point but feel we need more freedom regarding some areas and democracy being one of them and we all know the argument on that one, I am no UKIP support by the way but they do make the case for "who are they and who said they could be in charge?" Which on the face of it is a bloody good point.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 27 2013, 12:23PM

    Tstrunk ""Tstrunk, Law making is not what government is about, it is a/the tool it uses to achieve what it is about... So what is it about? Pleas explain? As so far you have shown you know very little Government." I don't want to play that game, the originals are so much better than you:- http://tinyurl.com/yorgpa

  • youngcornwall  |  January 27 2013, 2:13PM

    by PaddyTrembath "I don't want to play that game, the originals are so much better than you:- http://tinyurl.com/yorgpa" That's it Paddy best thing, back off, on an open forum it is a bit different to the closed shop set up that you are accustomed to, never mind thanks for your contribution anyway. by Tstrunk Good point. Yes relying too much on handouts can be a bad thing. The one good thing about being in the EU is we can go and work anywhere in it, and buy property if we like, it is not just a one way traffic for eastern Europeans to come to this country of which Cornwall has had its share, strange though that eastern Europeans can find work but the locals seem to have great difficulty.

  • PaddyTrembath  |  January 27 2013, 4:50PM

    Not backing off Mr. Harvey, just not prepared to play stupid games. Unfortunately, it seems that is all you are capable of.

  • Carvath  |  January 27 2013, 6:11PM

    Tstrunk, I don't quite know what you are saying in your last post that refers to me. In fact you seem to have used all your posts to say absolutely nothing on the subject!

  • Tstrunk  |  January 27 2013, 7:11PM

    by PaddyTrembathSunday, January 27 2013, 4:50PM "Not backing off Mr. Harvey, just not prepared to play stupid games. Unfortunately, it seems that is all you are capable of" by PaddyTrembathSunday, January 27 2013, 1:16AM "Tstrunk, Law making is not what government is about, it is a/the tool it uses to achieve what it is about." What is it about then?

  • youngcornwall  |  January 27 2013, 7:38PM

    by PaddyTrembath "Not backing off Mr. Harvey, just not prepared to play stupid games. Unfortunately, it seems that is all you are capable of." Whatever makes you happy Paddy. Mr, Harvey? What is this if it isn't playing stupid games, you can't but help putting your big foot in it can you LOL.

  • cliffwalker2  |  January 29 2013, 4:54PM

    If the Tories win the next election and get a referendum bill through Parliament I will eat my hat. Outside the Conservative Party and UKIP the punters don't spend a lot of time worrying about the EU, they are far more concerned with the economy, stupid, and immigration. Anyway, if we get to a referendum the country's business leaders will intervene to scare the living daylights out of us all. It's all wind and ****. I don't understand why the Conservatives tear themselves apart over the EU. The problem is of our own making, we allow our civil servants to implement EU directives and the courts to enforce them while the rest of the EU chuck them in a pending tray. How many european hospitals except for the UK can't train surgeons because of the EU working time directive?

  • Carvath  |  January 29 2013, 5:47PM

    It's unlikely the Tories will win the next election for starters. The rest of your post is sensible comment, Cliffwalker2, it seems the CS falls over backwards to implement stuff from the EU while others don't or take their time.

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