Login Register

Discussion

“Having reproduced the ONS figures showing that the benefits of tourism are a myth, allow us to expand a little further.

Several Cornwall Councillors believe that tourism should be subjected to a tax. Perhaps a pound a bed a night in order to offset the effects of tourism.

We shall ignore completely the idiotic comments of one poster but ask this. Should we now campaign to have those Councillors bring this to open discussion at Cornwall Council?

Tourism is a small part of Cornwall's GDP. There are other larger and more stable industries and the promise of better work to come as those of you who have seen the news this evening will know.

Our group is small, half a dozen or so, but we do have the ears of policy makers.”

By West Briton Posted: June 27, 2012

48 comments

48 replies

Start the discussion

max 4000 characters
  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 9:26PM

    The ons figures contradict your assertions re tourism. In FACT the figures demonstrate the central importance of tourism to cornwall. See ons documents for yourselves here http://tinyurl.com/7h8ez7n just download the pdf. Those councillors who wish to tax tourism probably share your lack of commercial ac***en....lets be honest they are not the cream of cornwall are they? An old investment addage is keep your winners and cut your losers. Adios touristtax

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 27 2012, 9:32PM

    A singular response to you. We shall not respond to any of your postings hereonin nor take heed of them. Indeed, we have just compiled a list of them and flagged them to this forums moderators as clear breaches of forum policy.

  • poldice  |  June 28 2012, 8:32AM

    Take care there Trevorrow, keep a weather eye on your blood pressure in case you boil your water, you hyperactive troll, you seem to be fighting a war on several fronts without moving forward.

  • Big_Ger  |  June 28 2012, 8:57AM

    Let's hope these alleged Councillors stand up and state their support for a "tourism tax" then. I'm willing to bet the won't, any councilor standing for a "Cornwall only" tax, one which would affect many of his or her constituents, would soon find themselves voted out of a job!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 11:18AM

    Touristatx nows own figures defeat him. Like every argument put forward by the cornish movement its just vainglorious nonsensical unsustainable spin designed to appeal to people who are too lazy to check the facts.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 11:39AM

    From the ONS this sentance sums up the situation. ''At the sub-regional level we would expect tourism to have a dominant role in driving output in some regions and Figure 8 shows this clearly in relation to Cornwall and the Isles of Scilly and the Highlands and Islands of Scotland in particular.'' source http://tinyurl.com/7h8ez7n

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 7:00PM

    H_Trevorrow: you should take heed of your own advice and read the ONS reports thoroughly and in their entirety. What the ONS figures show is that tourism industries form only 11% of TDGVA. The particular quotation that you provide is a commentry on the fact that, in Cornwall, tourism is more dependent on 'tourists' than other parts of the UK. If this sounds odd to you then you need to read all the backround in the ONS reports. Simplistically, because the GDP of Cornwall is so low compared to other parts of the UK and Europe, the people who live here are less likely to use the tourism (mainly leisure and luxury) industry outputs. thus .... tourism has a domnant role in driving output. This does not mean that it is crucial to the overall Cornish economy but simply that, in Cornwall, tourism is driven by tourists rather than a combination of tourists and people who live here.

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 28 2012, 7:26PM

    Freedom of Information Request submitted to Cornwall Council today. Please indicate how many people are employed in the tourist 'industry' in Cornwall? How many of these people are employed in seasonal only positions? How many of these people are permanently resident in Cornwall compared to people moving to Cornwall as seasonal residents to take up seasonal positions?

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 28 2012, 7:28PM

    Thanks for that KernowForward and you are correct but we do not respond to any postings by 'H_Trevorrow' whilst gladly noting that many of his posts have been removed.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 7:39PM

    Thanks for that TouristTaxNow, but, while you may not respond to H_Trevorrow, I reserve the right to do so. On the subject of a Tourist Tax, what would be the objective(s) of such a tax in the view of your geoup?

  • Slimslad  |  June 28 2012, 7:41PM

    In the U.K. overall, employment, by percentage: agriculture: 1.4%; industry: 8%; services: 90.6% The services that tourism generates, as a whole, cannot be ignored. Just because some folk are a little "xenophobic" , perhaps?

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 7:51PM

    How does TDGVA at 11% in Cornwall correlate to 'services: 90,68%'. Perhaps you are trying to compare apples and oranges?

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 28 2012, 8:11PM

    Thanks again KernowForward. Your discussion and views are welcomed. We have been given to understand that in fact, Cornwall pays dearly for tourism and second home 'occasional occupancy' in terms of environmental damage and extra public cleansing, of beaches for example, demands made on our public services by tourists, high local rates and the like. We have sent out for more information on this. We already have evidence of a GP surgery in Falmouth struggling to serve residents due to demands being made on it by 'drop in' tourists demanding attention. One such occasion saw a vociferous tourist treated in advance of other patients registered with the Practice. It will be a matter of public record that Newquay has represented a considerable burden on us and that special seasonal deployments of police and other emergency workers has deprived other areas quite considerably. A 'tourist tax' as employed elsewhere in Europe and further afield, could be used to offset the financial and other burdens on residents and to buy in extra services during influx periods. We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures. It has been good to note a more pragmatic approach to second home ownership/occasional occupancy by Cornwall Council particularly in view of the recent decision to comply owners to declare main occupancy to regularise voting rights and to prevent abuse of elections. Unhindered tourism as has been the case thus far, appears not to be the way ahead for Cornwall.The creation of highly subsidised and short term tourist attractions has served to divert Obj. 1 and subsequent Convergence Funding away from its true purpose. Further, more elected representatives appear to now realise that tourism has made considerable demands upon us all. U.K. statistics are of no interest to us.

  • Slimslad  |  June 28 2012, 8:12PM

    "Tourism demand is measured by looking at the spending by groups of consumers classed together as 'tourists'. Tourism supply is the output of businesses classified as being in a tourist category: Food and drink, accommodation and sports and recreation etc. Services, in other words. "

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 8:16PM

    @kernowforward from memory the 11% figure was the biggest single sector - top of the list of TDGVA. You seem keen to downplay the role of tourism in order to popularise taxing it. You have failed. Any councillor proposing this tax would lose their seat. The tourism lobby has deep roots to every part of the county. Collecting such a tax would also be a total nightmare. It is also a poor target for nationalists as overwhelmingly the whole cornish tourist industry is made up of small local businesses who spend thier money locally. Still it probably bolsters up a very thin policy pamphlet for the nats

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 8:26PM

    Here you go touristtax 36000 employed in accomodation and food servises the single biggest employment sector in the county http://tinyurl.com/d52loef click on cornwalls economy at a glance

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 8:46PM

    Slimslad: ""Tourism demand is measured by looking at the spending by groups of consumers classed together as 'tourists'. Tourism supply is the output of businesses classified as being in a tourist category: Food and drink, accommodation and sports and recreation etc. Services, in other words." But not all services are tourism services - if they were then tourism, in Cornwall, employing just 14.4% of the workforce is even less dependent on tourism than you would, presumably, have us believe that the UK as a whole is at 90%? Also employment is different to the value to the economy that is generated. In fact your comparison is not even compring apples with oranges, but more like comparing apples with elephants! TouristTaxNow: "We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures." This is what concerns me about the concept of a tourist tax which taxes 'beds'. It is indiscriminate as to who it is taxing. A small local business, using Cornish services and providing real value for people in Cornwall would be subject (disproportionately to their resources) to the same burden as UK and international companies. The tourist industry is not a bad thing per se. What needs to change is where the profits from it end up.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 8:57PM

    Touristtax said ''We have also been given to understand that a substantial percentage of 'income' generated by the tourist 'industry' remains in Cornwall for a very short period of time so further 'skewing' figures''." This a statement of pure fantasy.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 8:59PM

    H_Trevorrow: you appear to be guilty of not only misunderstanding the ONS figures but also doing Slimslad's trick of comparing things that are different. The ONS has a definition of tourism industries and it also separates out services that are dependent on tourist as compared to those which are not. For example, visiting tourists will purchase goods from supermarkets - does this mean that a supermarket is a tourist industry? Clearly some of its business is and some isn't. The ONS uses very complex models and criteria to evaluate all of these kinds of considerations but Cornwall Council does not. In particular, the food industry will cater for local people as well as tourists and is also a growing export industry for Cornwall. Therefore conflating 'accomodation and food' to 'tourism' is once again comparing apples and oranges.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 9:11PM

    In creating any new tax you must look at the practicalities of collecting and policing said tax. This would make the whole tourist tax unworkable and largely uncollected -- who is going to check on how many occupants at seaview cottage X 1000 their are every night- its a non starter. Arguably the tourists contribute to the cornish economy heavily already through thier rent- parking fees- etc etc. Notably nowhere else in the uk does this.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 9:15PM

    "Notably nowhere else in the uk does this." So London doesn't have a much bigger tourism sector than Cornwall?

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 9:24PM

    @kernowforward yes london is a big tourist centre and YES they don't have a tourist tax.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 9:27PM

    So you were wrong then?

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 9:30PM

    Follow the logic either tourism is a key/important industry and therefore presents a burden or it is an insignificant industry and therefore its burden must be less ?????? the nats want to portray an insignificant industry creating a hige burden...........only fools buy that.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 9:47PM

    kernowf wrong about wahat?

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 9:48PM

    Tourism can certainly be a good thing for the Cornish economy. However, it needs to be managed better so that the proceeds from the industry are more likely to remain in the Cornish economy rather than be spirited away by big globl companies which pay minimum wages for part-time, seasonal jobs. Cornish environment and culture is being adversely affected by unsustainable tourism practices.

  • Slimslad  |  June 28 2012, 9:55PM

    What these people want is a return to the "corner shops" of the 50's. Not going to happen.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 9:55PM

    H_Trevorrow: "Arguably the tourists contribute to the cornish economy heavily already through thier rent- parking fees- etc etc. Notably nowhere else in the uk does this." You were wrong!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 9:56PM

    kernow f rest assured some of the biggest concerns in cornish tourism are from here --- where are the holiday inns large national hotel chains etc---they cannot be rs ed with the cornish tourist industry. You are imagining tigers that don't exsist.

  • KernowForward  |  June 28 2012, 10:23PM

    Fat Willy's, perhaps a good example of a good local small business: Registered Office: 1 STERLING COURT, LODDINGTON,KETTERING,NORTHAMPTONSHIRE,NN14 1RZ Haven Holidays: 1 Park Lane, Hemel Hempstead, Herts, HP2 4YL Just two imaginary tigers that I googled within 20 seconds of your post appearing. If you care to do the same you may be surprised at just how many of these organisations take the profits from Cornwall. Please don't provide a list of tourism based companies based in Cornwall. There are many. That is not the point that you were, incorrectly again, trying to make. It is fact that the profits of much of the tourism industry go straight upcountry or overseas.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 10:25PM

    kf for clarity -- nowhere else in the uk has a tourist tax...apoligies if i confused you. From your comments thus far it seems you are prone to confusion and i should have been more sensitive to this.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 28 2012, 10:41PM

    for a start fat willys is now a global business--started in cornwall Roddas creamery , another world renown business, registered at Scorrier. WE could swap these anecdotal niceties till the cows come home-

  • Tolgus  |  June 28 2012, 10:52PM

    " Several Cornwall Councillors believe that tourism should be subjected to a tax." Out of a total of 123 Councillors? "Several" can "believe" all they want.

  • Big_Ger  |  June 30 2012, 7:48AM

    I have written to Mebyon Kernow via their website, asking if they support a Cornwall county only "tourist tax." So far they have not replied.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 8:33AM

    Ger this tourist tax idea is mooted every ten years or so and always gets rejected. Reasons being - almost impossible to administer - costs of administration - detrimental to the industry. The most recent sighting of this lochness monster of a tax was in story in the travel pages of the telegraph last year. The effect of such a tax would be to bite into the already small profit margin of local small businesses who already pay council rates. Tourist taxnow is probably the blogger cornish zeitics for whom this dodgy tax and misrepresentation of statistics is a holy grail

  • poldice  |  June 30 2012, 9:01AM

    Arent there enough petty irritating taxes already? Many of us us have fleetingly thought of taxing tourists especially when stuck in a traffic jam on the Hayle bypass on a rainy August day when the poor blighters cant get on the beach and we are trying to get our work done. Tourists are already taxed indirectly by the cheap nasty rip offs on things like overpriced ice creams etc which only show us Cornish in a very bad light. its generally the cheap nasty end of the market that perpetually complains, a typical example being that awful strip of Newquay near the railway station which is my personal vision of hell. Those who have a quality offering and deliver true value for money usually get by, it is highly significant that a fair proportion of the rip off merchants are incomers who see the tourist trade as a soft option to a fast buck. JUST ENCOURAGE QUALITY TOURISM AND LET IT EARN AN HONEST LIVING. NO TOURIST TAX ITS A COMPLETE NO BRAINER.

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 30 2012, 9:31AM

    Just to point out Big_Ger that we are not connected with any political party. Our next posting will be when we receive the FoI request returns. Personally, my political leanings are towards the Liberal Democrats but I am not a member.

  • TouristTaxNow  |  June 30 2012, 9:36AM

    That said, this might be of interest Big_Ger: http://tinyurl.com/7l9adyy

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 9:51AM

    Touristtaxnow, or one of their few freinds, will try using this same stat ie tourism =11% of our economy to argue we are over dependent on one particular industry. Directly opposing his /her /their assertion that it is ''not a significant economic driver''

  • Chy_Howlek  |  June 30 2012, 9:55AM

    Try to remain polite and less aggressive in your manner Trevorrow/Antbod lest you want a repeat of yesterday. Your postings and obsessions are being recorded and monitored and it is such a waste of time to write so much as you do, even if much of it is barely literate, only to have it deleted. Enjoy!

  • youngcornwall  |  June 30 2012, 12:22PM

    by by H_Trevorrow "The effect of such a tax would be to bite into the already small profit margin of local small businesses who already pay council rates." Very true and interesting comments by you on this topic H_Trevorrow, try not to be browbeaten or intimidated by those who troll this forum with the intention to disrupt.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 12:41PM

    I can almost see the point of a "tax on tourists". After all, Cornwall Council already charge passenger leaving Newquay Airport a £5.00 fee for their Airport Development Fund. But this fee is easy to collect and difficult to avoid. You are not allowed into Departures without your ticket from the machine. However, I imagine a £1.00-a-night "tourist tax" would have to be collected, (rather like VAT), by the owner of the holiday let. A whole new level of bureaucracy and paperwork added to an already huge pile of "red tape" , in my opinion.

  • Carvath  |  June 30 2012, 2:41PM

    Slimslad you've changed your name!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 4:54PM

    No worries YC. I take the browbeating and attempts at censorship as a compliment.The actions of bad losers.

  • Slimslad  |  June 30 2012, 6:09PM

    I haven't, Craig. Have you?

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 6:58PM

    I started thinking what ''extra burden'' does tourism create? Tourists don't use education or adult care services....they rarely require the fire service...police arrests in Newquay at the this years run to the sun event were all locals......nobody gets on a cronish hospital waiting list while they are here.....any business establishment is required to use a commercial waste contractor ....nobody goes on holiday and uses the local governmant services like planning.....i'v never seen a tourist in a gp waiting room......they certainly don't require any housing or other benefits......whatever lifegaurding costs is probably well covered by the car parking fees. Yet the establishments they use for 6 months of the year have to pay full council tax or business rates for the whole year. The fact is tourism pays its way many times over.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 8:15PM

    TOURISTTAXNOW has asked the council for information on how many people are employed in tourism seasonally and how many are from the county. He could also ask the same question of the agricultural sector {broccoli , cabbage, flower picking}. But would that appeal to the xenophobic tendancies of any support he may wish to harness or fail to play with the politics of envy??? Attacking working class ..not likely. I believe he/she /they underestimate the intelligence of this county

  • Big_Ger  |  July 02 2012, 9:58AM

    "A singular response to you. We shall not respond to any of your postings hereonin nor take heed of them." Ha! Always a giveaway, Carbon Boot, Calmer Waters, and many of his other "sock puppets" always refer to themselves by the "Royal We" Oh, still no reply from MK to my polite and reasonable request for information from them!

View all Comments
 
 

START A DISCUSSION

Something about your area!