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“The Cornish are not English! Cornwall is not England! We are closely related to the Welsh and we demand the same rights!

Recognition and devolution for the Celtic Nation and Duchy of Cornwall now!”

By gwenonek Posted: June 18, 2012

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  • everywhere  |  June 25 2012, 11:06PM

    fight for nationhood,,and a cornish constituion..not for duchy...cornwalls freedom will not be won in a court of law!!!...only the will and determination of our people will carry the day..

  • youngcornwall  |  June 26 2012, 9:20AM

    With the Cornish being more and more outnumbered in the county of Cornwall, to "demand" is the wrong approach I would say, the few Cornish (if you can determine who is Cornish) will get very little on their own.

  • everywhere  |  June 26 2012, 9:53AM

    what has numbers to do with it all...and being cornish is very simple to determine!!..Its something you feel!!..to be cornish you identify with cornish culture..language and flag!!..to indentify with any other culture..flag etc,then you are other!!!...yes, even a person born in cornwall of english parents can become cornish by adoption!!...but no man or woman can claim to be cornish and owe their allegiance to another flag...

  • youngcornwall  |  June 26 2012, 12:43PM

    by everywhere "what has numbers to do with it all" The majority is normally determined by the count of "numbers" posted in the ballot box, if a handful who thinks they are more Cornish than most, think they can do it on their own, they will have another think coming. by everywhere "but no man or woman can claim to be cornish and owe their allegiance to another flag" And who has come up with this little ditty? It has only been in these last few years that the Cornwall county flag has been recognised and that is mainly down to the tourist industry. I have never seen anyone standing at the cenotaph on Armistice Sunday with the flag that you suggest.

  • KernowGB  |  June 26 2012, 10:43PM

    by youngcornwall - Tuesday, June 26 2012, 9:20AM "With the Cornish being more and more outnumbered in the county of Cornwall, to "demand" is the wrong approach I would say, the few Cornish (if you can determine who is Cornish) will get very little on their own." --------------------------------------------------------------- What are you describing there yc? Perhaps the last to postings on this thread here, might provide some pointers? http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 '

  • everywhere  |  June 27 2012, 1:37AM

    you bunch of fool trolls...EDF..BNP..UKIP...OR WHATEVER YOU ARE!!!...what brand of democracy do you advocate...none it seems!!!...yes ok ,majority rule...but that does not mean the minority have to accept the rule of majority...we are free to agitate and put forward our own views and ideas...we do not have to accept english rule ok!!!...do you understand that !!!...and what is your fixation with the cornish flag...whatever its age it is the legitimate flag of cornish patriots,so you had better get use to the fact...also one of your goons commented that the only flag to have flown over cornwall was the jolly rodger...i think he meant the scull and crossbone...well the only place you will find that flag flying is in a hollywood movie...the jolly rodger being a red flag..and dont give me this cenotaph tripe...perhaps you might like to visit Guy gibsons memorial at porthleven...you might be surprised at what you see!!!

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 7:44AM

    ".yes ok ,majority rule...but that does not mean the minority have to accept the rule of majority.." That made me laugh. "Majority rule"? I think the chap might mean "democracy at work"?

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 8:14AM

    @Slimslad (re Wednesday, June 27 2012, 7:44AM) Slimslad, we have "majority rule" at the moment. It is called the status quo and it is NOT DEMOCRACY FOR THE CORNISH PEOPLE. If it were, we would not be living in an 'EIS Trolls Paradise'. I have, above, pointed your colleague to his 'abandoned' thread where the last two posts spells out what it is all about. Perhaps you should pluck up the courage to have a peek? The only way that any hint of Democracy can be brought into our Cornish Duchy is when 'All the Truth' is known about the lies, deception and propaganda about the abuse of Cornish Rights and our illegally Suppressed Constitution that all adds up to Cornish Genocide. You know the thread! Only when 'All the Truth' is known and discussed with transparency, and honesty - unknown to you lot! - will 'the people' be able to make proper informed choices about the future of both themselves and our Cornish Duchy, which as you know is extra-territorial to England in the same way that Scotland is. The Lady and her Lad know the truth, let them set a good example! Until that time, it will be business as usual, but, faced with the usual EIS 'denial', 'denigration' and 'diversions' supported by Crown & State Intransigence', will only escalate.

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 8:36AM

    Stand for the Parish council, County Council, Parliament , and tell the voters what your views are. They will vote, and either you will get elected, or won't, simple as that. Your idea of "democracy" is having Cornwall "handed to you on a plate", with no elections, no voting, no democracy. You are the only person that talks about Cornish "genocide", the only person that is passionate about Cornish "genocide". The only person that believes in Cornish "genocide"

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 8:43AM

    Cornwall rejects these extremists ..always has always will.

  • youngcornwall  |  June 27 2012, 9:10AM

    by everywhere "we do not have to accept english rule ok!!!...do you understand that !!!...and what is your fixation with the cornish flag..." You do not have to accept anything, as long as you abide by the law of the land that will be fine. Regarding the flag, no "fixation" on my part, it is a flag nothing more and nothing less, if there are those who wish to wrap themselves in a flag to make themselves more Cornish good for them.

  • everywhere  |  June 27 2012, 11:53AM

    trevorrow and youngcornwall,,,two old men desperate to leave their mark on the world...now move aside old men...you have had your day...Cornwall is on the march..

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 12:19PM

    How sad are you H-T? You cannot win a discussion so you revert to calling People extremists, trying to use it as a winning statement. There are NO extremists in the Cornish Movement, just good honest decent People. Real Men, stand for honesty and truth, they protect the weak against the strong. Real Men are not afraid to say when they are wrong, and will go that extra Mile to do what is right. Real Men will keep an open mind and change what they believe when new evidence is presented. Real Men do not bury their heads in the sand like you and YC and Co.

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 2:59PM

    by Slimslad - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 8:36AM "Stand for the Parish council, County Council, Parliament , and tell the voters what your views are. --------------------------------------- Stand for any one of those and you are compelled by their protocols and procedures to become one of them. I much prefer to be independent and free to express myself in the way that gets my message over to the majority and not constrained by restrictive EIS practises. It is such elected representation, that, in the main, has failed us for well over a 100 years. Any changes that can only bring DEMOCRACY TO CORNWALL AND THE CORNISH PEOPLE, must emanate from those at the top that have created the Cornish Paradox and initiated the process of CORNISH GENOCIDE. by Slimslad - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 8:36AM They will vote, and either you will get elected, or won't, simple as that. ----------------------------------------- They do not have ALL THE TRUTH ABOUT THE ABUSES OF CORNISH RIGHTS, so how can they make the correct informed choices? ======== by Slimslad - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 8:36AM Your idea of "democracy" is having Cornwall "handed to you on a plate", with no elections, no voting, no democracy. ------------------------------------------- My idea of democracy, as I have already said numerous times is to get the EIS, headed by 'The Lady and HER lad" to come clean on the truth about the Cornish Constitution and their collusion in the ABUSE OF CORNISH RIGHTS and the process of CORNISH GENOCIDE!. ======== by Slimslad - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 8:36AM You are the only person that talks about Cornish "genocide", the only person that is passionate about Cornish "genocide". The only person that believes in Cornish "genocide" ----------------------------------------------- So! What are you all worried about that you spend so much time seeking to 'deny', 'denigrate' and 'divert' topics from discussing it, or discussing it yourselves? I am certainly passionate about it, because it is the only way that the Cornish Movement will make any real and genuine progress, rather than simply being deferential to EIS Rules and protocols. ============= by H_Trevorrow - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 8:43AM "Cornwall rejects these extremists ..always has always will." ----------------------------------------- Do they? How do you know that to be true and how do you define 'extremist' within that context? Start a thread so that you can 'expose' the extremist nature of what you identify as extremists, rather than just hoping innuendo on its own, rather than substantiation, will suffice. ============= by youngcornwall - Wednesday, June 27 2012, 9:10AM ------------------------------------------------- "by everywhere "we do not have to accept english rule ok!!!...do you understand that !!!...and what is your fixation with the cornish flag..." ------------------------------------------------- You do not have to accept anything, as long as you abide by the law of the land that will be fine. Regarding the flag, no "fixation" on my part, it is a flag nothing more and nothing less, if there are those who wish to wrap themselves in a flag to make themselves more Cornish good for them." --------------------------------------------------------------------------- A "law of the land" that lies about the Cornish Constitution and denies the Cornish access to their history in a process of 'Forced Assimilation' plus offensive English Symbolism within our Cornish Duchy, within a larger process of Cornish Genocide that all that perpetuates.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 3:16PM

    My humble opinion Angoof is that you would damage Cornwalls economy and people deeply with your vanity and ride roughshod over the vulnerable in your quest for power. Your lies and half baked truths are uncovered as such by any one open minded enough to check your ridiculous so called ''facts''.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 3:39PM

    H-T you are just a Troll, nothing more, nothing less. What was your name before this new one? I do not have a quest for anythihng but the truth. You call my beliefs lies, post some proof to that statement. I want actual proof, stating sources H-T. Lets see if you can come up with just one shall we.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 3:41PM

    Oh and H-T, I have challenged you in another thread to post some proof of what you say here, no answer. That comes as no suprise, because as a Troll you cannot give any.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 3:44PM

    Guilty by association angoof.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 3:50PM

    Proof moron, put you actions where your mouth is.

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 3:57PM

    "Stand for any one of those and you are compelled by their protocols and procedures to become one of them." So, you talk politics, embrace politics, but would never participate in a democratic election? "My idea of democracy, as I have already said numerous times is to get the EIS, headed by 'The Lady and HER lad" to come clean on the truth about the Cornish Constitution and their collusion in the ABUSE OF CORNISH RIGHTS and the process of CORNISH GENOCIDE!. " Your "idea of democracy" is just that, "your idea", nobody elses. So! What are you all worried about that you spend so much time seeking to 'deny', 'denigrate' and 'divert' topics from discussing it, or discussing it yourselves? I am certainly passionate about it, because it is the only way that the Cornish Movement will make any real and genuine progress, rather than simply being deferential to EIS Rules and protocols. I, for one, is not "worried". On this the "Cornish Movement" comes down to you, Mr P. Cornish "genocide" is an opinion formulated by you, held by you, and you, alone.

  • everywhere  |  June 27 2012, 3:58PM

    Your humble opinion trevorrow is not needed..Cornwall will achieve nationhood..you will not halt the process..the Cornish are awakening and throwing off their shackles ....we will follow the democratic route...we will overturn all barriers put in our way...any extremist measures will start with the uk government...not us!!!......read what you will in that trevorrow

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 4:21PM

    "we will follow the democratic route2. With a stirring vision of MK foot soldiers marching for freedom, I ask Cole how many members the party has. "Er…" There's a slight pause. "Six hundred," he says. "We're on an upswing, though. We used to have three, and now we have five councillors on the Cornwall Council."

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 4:27PM

    everywhere you and the other nats are a dozen oddballs making a disproportionate amount of noise on the back pages of nowhere.........you could'nt run a bath never mind a nation. Me YC and Slim should be paid as your therapists.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 4:56PM

    H-Tremoron, you need to stop attacking People without having to resort to showing how dumb you really are. I have asked you repeatedly to post your proof and you haven't. Nobody can take you seriously if you cannot back up your arguments. Even the lowest of the low can attack what others write without foundation.

  • everywhere  |  June 27 2012, 5:39PM

    Hey Trevorrow,,lets see how far down the road you dare to tread....what are you,and the english government going to do to stop our Cornish movement......come on answer it old boy??..i think you are a coward and wont!!!

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 6:15PM

    Not "wont"....... "CAN'T"!. In the same way that he/they cannot substantiate all their opinions amd innuendo!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 6:32PM

    I can't speak for the goverment but my pleasure is exposing your ridiculous ideas. To be honest you do a better job of alienating yourselves than i could ever hope to.

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 6:51PM

    But you have not exposed anything. How could you, you have never substantiated anything and it is delusional to even think that you have. Just more empty rhetoric.

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 7:01PM

    You know when a point has been made with "KernowGB". Mr P. doesn't answer. Even when his own method of reply is used.

  • poldice  |  June 27 2012, 7:09PM

    So we Cornish couldnt run a bath then Trevorrow, that is really good news as it puts us right up there with the English Government, on an equal footing with them, what an ideal launchpad to be starting out from my Boy. YOUR SINGULAR OBSESSION WITH US NATIONALISTS IS UNHEALTHY TREVORROW - PUTTING YOU UP THERE WITH SENATOR MC CARTHY - AND JUST AS DANGEROUS - REDS UNDER THE BED AND ALL THAT BUT OBVIOUSLY IN KERNOW IT WILL BE A NAT BEHIND EVERY FURZE BUSH.

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 7:12PM

    you have never substantiated anything and it is delusional to even think that you have. Just more empty rhetoric." "Delusional". A word much bandied about. http://tinyurl.com/cqpeobe

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 7:16PM

    kernow gb try and keep up will you http://tinyurl.com/7zstkvp

  • Slimslad  |  June 27 2012, 7:26PM

    Sorry that link failed to work. I fear I may be coming delusional. Anyway, 38 mentions of the word "delusional" on a misty island, far away.

  • everywhere  |  June 27 2012, 7:28PM

    Oh trevorrow you coward!! no stirring words from you then?..my fellow Cornishmen run rings around you..you are a loser!!...as your ship slowly sinks below the waves i can hear the band on the afterdeck playing there always be an england...and you clinging to the stern rail shouting extremist ,extremist like a demented parrot....

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 7:35PM

    Cornish nationalists couldn't run a bath Poldice. The people of Cornwall keep telling you this,,,,why not listen.

  • poldice  |  June 27 2012, 7:51PM

    Because I think I would hate being like you Trevorrow.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 7:52PM

    talking of delusional and everywhere provides the perfect example - .''my fellow Cornishmen run rings around you..you are a loser!!...as your ship slowly sinks below the waves i can hear the band on the afterdeck playing there always be an england...and you clinging to the stern rail shouting extremist ,extremist like a demented parrot...''." Get a grip man.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 8:03PM

    Angoof said real men stand for honesty. Confronted with the facts that mk have no workable solution to housing need he has melted away.. Is this the real man standing for honesty we were presented with earlier?????

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 8:13PM

    Poldice you would hate being like me....you mean wealthy, handsome and intelligent....made in cornwall BOY

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 8:33PM

    Just more of the same diversionary tactics to avoid responding to the topic subject. What is never substantiated is the personally directed innuendo and invective, because you simply do not have anything to prove what you say. That is where the honesty and integrity is absent. Quoting statistics or framing your own arguments, to avoid engaging in a proper discussion is not substantiating your opinions, it is avoiding doing so as part of your 'denial' and denigration' agenda of the Cornish arguments and seeking to control the boards and prevent real discussion of the topic

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 9:00PM

    Kernowgb what people understand is that the petty chieftans of ancient tribes long ago ceeded control to the English hierachy...since recorded history began. Cornwall , despite some unique preferences, has been in the gift of kings of england for so long that the majority are happy to be considered part of a nation of england knowing that 1000 years of free association undermine any contrary notion. Your attempts to pervert these heart felt truths revulse ordinary folk in my humble opinion.

  • poldice  |  June 27 2012, 9:12PM

    My goodness Trevorrow you have outed me, I am all of those and a NATIONALIST PERRANER to boot.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 9:49PM

    Tremoron, not melted away, better things to do than trying to correct as sad git like you. Talk about misquoting History, do you actually believe the rubbish you put here or are you really that stupid? Ceeded power to an English hierachy, totally wrong, subjected is the right term. Been in the gift of Kings of England, sigh, again totally wrong. Been a Duchy under a Duke is correct, a Duchy or Nation same thing, Duke from the Roman Dux meaning a leader. 1000 years of free association, yet again completely wrong, Cornwall was pretty much untouched untill the midlle to late 1800's. To be honest Tremoron you come accross as a total pratt, who know nothing and posts rubbish. Your only equal is possibly a leaf, but I would give the leaf the edge.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 10:14PM

    angoof calm yourself . ceeded # subjected ...no evidence of a struggle ? Duchy was only a recent thing ..earldom was the previous honour ..well 1000 yrs ago. ha ha. Free association for a thousand years and well before for all we know....on top of which we know celts were not the original inhabitants... just the people who happened to be here at the right time to leave a mark on place names, You've been confused by naives imo ANGOOF

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 10:29PM

    Incorrect again Tremoron, the Celts were the first to populate Europe after the last Ice Age, this has now been proved beyond all doubt. No evidence of a struggle, you are kidding right? There is so much evidence to make your statement pathetic, I won't even bother to answer that. Yes Cornwall was a Earldom before it was a Duchy. Earl = Count if you didn't know. It's where the original meaning of County comes from, County = an Area ruled by a Count. Todays meaning of County is actually Shire, which Cornwall never has been. Cornwall had it's own Shires. You know Tremoron there is an old saying: you can't educate Pork, enough said my old Bacon Butty.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 10:48PM

    check your maths old son celts seem to be new boys http://tinyurl.com/7crklrc

  • KernowGB  |  June 27 2012, 10:51PM

    @H_Trevorrow (re Wednesday, June 27 2012, 10:14PM) "A recent thing"? What rubbish! What was the difference between the Earldom of Cornwall and the Duchy of Cornwall, then, Trevorrow? Constitutionally? Nothing! At no time did either merge into the Crown, but was a distinct territorial possession extra-territorial to England. The Duchy had more extensive prerogatives and estates as part of the augmentation, but it was only ever held 'as of the honor' of Earldom and Duchy respectively. The augmentation to a Duchy formalised the grant to a single person, the heir to the throne, whereas the Earldom was a rather fragmented arroangement that occasionally alienated parcels of the Earldom. It however always remained as a territorial whole. The true legal position of the 'Duchy of Cornwall, especially in the wording of the associated documents, is the incontrovertible proof that the Cornish people have been insidiously abused by Crown and State. Why should you, and your friends wish that to be withheld from the public perception?. Ceding control is about coming under the 'protection' of a foreign king and it is the historical predatory nature of that relationship that has brought us to where we are now. However, the creation, more correctly the 'restoration', of the Duchy of Cornwall, in 1337, is a constitutional settlement that deliberately sets Cornwall apart forever, with the Duke as the head of the Cornish State. The misrepresentation of that fact can only be construed as being genocidal in intent to deny the Cornish their rights as one of the constituent nations of Britain, where the existence of 'the Duchy' and its constitutional position is wilfully lied about as the title of Duchy is hijacked for a 'private' estate and a commercial enterprise. The reference to a 1000 years is nothing more than an imagined smokescreen of wishful thinking by those that cannot provide proof that once again has not, and can not, be substantiated. If it can be totally undermined within the last 100 years and shown by historical evidence not to be as you would like it to be reflected, then where is your argument? Please show where the evidence on the "Genocide and the Truth?" (or other threads) even begins to support your assertions. The existence of the conflation of English with British is just another element that brings total chaos to your assertions of what is, or is not 'English', which has been around for many centuries. Not least during the mythical inception of Great Britain at the beginning of the Stuart's Reign, or the Victorian glorification of the British Empire that permeated the newly introduced educational brainwashing curriculum. Show me where a 'British history' is anything other than 'English history' by another name. If you feel so confident about your unproven assertions, then let the whole story be brought out into the public domain, in the way that Thomas Hammarberg, the COE Human Rights Commissioner, recommends? Then we can all fight together for a common cause. The search for the Truth. John Norden prepared "The General Historie of the Duchie of Cornwall" (1650) and gives us a brief view of the classical symptoms of external domination when he identifies the two factions of the Cornish population between the 'Gentlemen' who have "tasted ciuil education" and the "baser sort" who have not. The latter described as: ------------------------------------------------------- "And as they are amonge themselues litigious, so seem they yet to retayne a kinde of conceyled enuye agaynste the Englishe, whom they yet effecte with a desire of reuenge for their fathers sakes, by whome their fathers recuyued the repulse." ------------------------------------------------------- There are other examples.

  • poldice  |  June 27 2012, 10:57PM

    ""In the darkness of despair we saw a vision. We lit the light of hope and it was not extinguished. In the desert of discouragement we saw a vision. We planted the tree of valour and it blossomed. In the winter of bondage we saw a vision. We melted the snow of lethargy and the river of resurrection flowed from it. We sent our vision aswim like a swan on the river. The vision became a reality. Winter became summer. Bondage became freedom and this we left to you as our inheritance. O generations of freedom remember us. The generations of the vision.""

  • poldice  |  June 27 2012, 11:03PM

    From the plaque in the Garden of Remembrance in Dublin where last year Queen Elizabeth laid a wreath in recognition of those who rose against her forebears. Time is a great healer and Kernow has time on its side we need no false prophets like Trevorrow to betray us or despise us, our intent is peaceful, our cause is just, the snow of lethargy is thawing, we too have a vision.

  • AnGof1955  |  June 27 2012, 11:08PM

    Tremoron has great difficulty in understanding Peoples and Culture. I think he means Le Tene Culture, if I am not mistaken. Also he fails to understand the time scales involved, it's like saying modern English Culture is the same as it was in the Middle Ages, totally pathetic. When he uses the Term Celt, he yet again misunderstands what he is saying. Celt is quite a Modern term used to describe People who used a Celtic Language, it was not used by those People to describe themselves but is useful today as a Label. The same way we use English today to describe People who have Angle, Jute and Saxon Lineage. DNA has now proved that the Celts of Britain have been in Britain for thousands of Years, since the last Ice Age. Like I said before, you can't Educate Pork.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 27 2012, 11:13PM

    @kgb small beer.- cornwall lost any self determination and became the posession of whoever ruled the rest of what we call england....you're splitting hairs and using shreds of dubious evidence as usual. @ angoof spare a thought for the beaker culture - millenia before the first celt tribe even appeared in europe--- http://tinyurl.com/ydpu34k For those experiencing a fundamental crisis of identity please contact samaritans on 08457 90 90 90

  • SECRETCITEZEN  |  June 28 2012, 9:47AM

    ahhh a thread by middle aged sad men with nothing better to do than moan aabout cornish this cornish that, oh england is awful yada yada yada ! you both suck look at this place , england/cornwall, misery incarnate . 1 percent of the world ownes all the wealth, and you lot are moaning about who is more inbred children are starving around the world. you know the only time you lot will wake up and even contribute in a worthwhile fashion is when you house prices bottom out and the dream is lost. then you will inderstand English or cornish , it does not matter , your a consumer , now go buy that new tv it will make you happy , ..... for a while !

  • KernowGB  |  June 28 2012, 10:18AM

    by H_Trevorrow - (re Wednesday, June 27 2012, 11:13PM) "@kgb small beer.- cornwall lost any self determination and became the posession of whoever ruled the rest of what we call england....you're splitting hairs and using shreds of dubious evidence as usual. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Simply not true! It was a Territorial possession under "the protection of the Crown", which is why it is now held as a perpetual trust, by the Crown, when there is no Duke, with a special constitution position within the State. It is neither for the Crown nor the Duke to dispose of, or initiate a process of Cornish Genocide. Neither is it the prerogative of the fauxCornish Imperialist apologists. As AnGof1955 rightly said, ""Tremoron has great difficulty in understanding Peoples and Culture." A good example of how correct he is, is the fact of your own identity. With all the constitutional changes that interfered with the development, and consolidation, of 'England' this never changed the underlying culture identity of your adopted nation. In fact the same constitutional changes that interfered with Cornwall, only served to strengthen the Cornish Identity until the ultimate genocidal coup de grace of 1889, when the Duchy was illegally demoted to a mere administrative county in England (sic). It is only, as you imply, "small beer" because you speak from a faux Cornish English Imperialist apologist position. The Cornish will to exist as the Cornish Nation has transcended all the political and constitutional chicanery up until the present time and manifested itself throughout history by internal example and external observation. That is the reason that your 1000 years is just empty, and jealous rhetoric for having lived "The Lie". "Small beer" is not a valid response to the evidence that I present, it is simply more 'denial', 'denigration' and 'dismissive' without substance. The Norden observation that I quoted that I gave coincided with the time that Cornwall was being spray-painted out of the public perception by being removed from the recent moves to official State-sponsored maps. Let me add a later observation by Robert Lois Stevenson, from his book "Across the Plains" (1892) to indicate that '"he Cornish" still figured in the public perception: ------------------------------------------------- "There were no emigrants direct from Europe - save one German family and a knot of Cornish miners who kept grimly to themselves, one reading the New Testament all day long through steel spectacles, the rest discussing privately the secrets of their old-world, mysterious race. Lady Hester Stanhope believed she could make something great of the Cornish; for my part, I can make nothing of them at all. A division of races, older and more original than Babel, keeps this close, esoteric family apart from neighbouring Englishmen. Not even a Red Indian seems more foreign in my eyes. This is one of the lessons of travel - that some of the strangest races dwell next door to you at home." ---------------------------------------------------------------------"

  • Gurnards_Head  |  June 28 2012, 11:00AM

    "To be rooted is perhaps the most important and least recognized need of the human soul. It is one of the hardest to define. A human being has roots by virtue of his real, active and natural participation in the life of a community which preserves in living shape certain particular treasures of the past and certain particular expectations for the future."

  • Slimslad  |  June 28 2012, 4:22PM

    Very good, Gurnards_Head. I wish I had said that. Then again, I bet you wish you had said it too.

  • KernowGB  |  June 28 2012, 5:11PM

    Let us complement, and balance, it with a quote that links it directly to what is going on within our Cornish Duchy and which has also been previously added to "The Genocide" thread: ------------------------ "Collective identity is not self-evident but derives from the numerous, inter-dependent aspects of a group's existence. Lemkin's original conception of genocide expressly recognized that a group could be destroyed by attacking any of these unique aspects. By limiting genocide to its physical and biological manifestations, a group can be kept physically and biologically intact even as its collective identity suffers in a fundamental and irremediable manner. Put another way, the present understanding of genocide preserves the body of the group but allows its very soul to be destroyed. " ----------------------------------------------------------

  • Tolgus  |  June 28 2012, 5:28PM

    Forgive my ignorance, but what is all this about Cornish Genocide? Is this a reference to the Prayer-Book Rebellion of 1549?

  • Tolgus  |  June 28 2012, 5:32PM

    Lemkin, who, (although the originator of the word, "genocide", and an expert in his field), never identified Cornish people as "victims" of genocide. Never wrote one word on it. Puzzling.

  • Gurnards_Head  |  June 28 2012, 5:33PM

    How on earth could you ever imagine a thick ignorant Cornish Nationalist saying that? it was actually said by a Jewish Lady victim of the Holocaust but is nonetheless very relevant to this forum.

  • everywhere  |  June 28 2012, 6:06PM

    hey secretcitizen,you seem to have a phobia against older men!!!...whats the problem?..and moaning about what percentage of the people own what is a none starter...i am on your side in respect of the inequalities of life...but we live in a capitalist world...where for some people to be rich others have to be poor...there can be no equality under capitalism..the equitable world you seek is a myth..so unless you want to get into socialist theory ..it's better to drop the politics of envy because it eats you up like cancer...so fight for a new Cornwall..a just Cornwall that cares for it people...it can be done..with the will of our people..

  • KernowGB  |  June 28 2012, 8:28PM

    @Tolgus (re Thursday, June 28 2012, 5:28PM & Thursday, June 28 2012, 5:32PM) No! and No! Why is it "puzzling"? Are you Slimslad's younger brother? Visit here: http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 for total enlightenment.

  • trelawneyone  |  June 28 2012, 9:51PM

    us cornish have always been too easy going we opened our arms to these people to come here and enjoy our country allowed them to sit on councils and every other committee only to be stabbed in the back & thanked by most of them with them wanting to turn it into their own domain with their ideals and whims leaving us in a minority in our own land and if they can they will be the overall dominators, so we must stick together and try to get kernow back on track with its own rightful identity

  • Tolgus  |  June 28 2012, 10:28PM

    I am "puzzled" because I have studied the work of Lemkin and his excellent collaboration with others to present their evidence at the Genocide Convention in 1948. I read your post with some surprise, as Lemkin was very thorough and exacting in his study of genocide. I can find no mention of Cornwall in any of his many examples of genocide, (in all its forms). I will be the first to apologize if this is not the case. I have two older brothers, although I can't for the life of me see how this is relevant.

  • Carvath  |  June 28 2012, 10:39PM

    Are you Slimslad's younger brother? :-)

  • Slimslad  |  June 28 2012, 10:58PM

    He isn't, Carvath. LOL

  • youngcornwall  |  June 29 2012, 8:51AM

    by trelawneyone "us cornish have always been too easy going we opened our arms to these people to come here and enjoy our country allowed them to sit on councils and every other committee" Which is their right, open arms or closed arms, there are no restrictions on movement of people in this country, the same as many Cornish have left the county of Cornwall. Just look and examine what new blood has brought into the county, which "sit on councils and every other committee", to the point of reviving old Cornish customs that would have been lost and gone forever, with their spin on things it makes these events more marketable without a doubt.

  • KernowGB  |  June 29 2012, 10:21AM

    by Tolgus - Thursday, June 28 2012, 10:28PM "I am "puzzled" because I have studied the work of Lemkin and his excellent collaboration with others to present their evidence at the Genocide Convention in 1948. I read your post with some surprise, as Lemkin was very thorough and exacting in his study of genocide. I can find no mention of Cornwall in any of his many examples of genocide, (in all its forms). I will be the first to apologize if this is not the case. I have two older brothers, although I can't for the life of me see how this is relevant." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This is something that, more properly, should be discussed on "The Genocide" thread, but I would be intrigued if you could please list the places that Lemkin does mention as part of "his many examples of genocide"? I would be even more interested in why you consider that a 'non-reference' to Cornwall might be relevant, within a discussion on Lemkin's research that formulated a 'universal' definition of Genocide, intended to be brought into International Law? A definition that was 'finalised' in the 1948 Convention in a seriously limited form. My query re Slimslad is because of the unfortunately similar format of your post, and the choice of question. We will, of course, never know who is really who in internet forums.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 9:00AM

    There is information in these short extracts from Lemkin's published work http://tinyurl.com/6my5onv http://tinyurl.com/bv9dbh2 The "non-reference" leads me to the conclusion that Lemkin himself either "missed" the Cornish genocide in his research for the 1948 Convention, or that others have taken his conclusions and theories and somehow "fitted" them to modern-day Cornwall.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 9:05AM

    Prevent Genocide International http://tinyurl.com/ynps6q

  • KernowGB  |  June 30 2012, 10:33AM

    @Tolgus (re Saturday, June 30 2012, 9:00AM & Saturday, June 30 2012, 9:05AM) Thanks for the links, with which I am very familiar. Please explain why a "non-reference" is relevant within the scope of a 'universal definition of the process of Genocide' and your reference to "somehow" fitted them to modern day Cornwall? http://tinyurl.com/d9o8gx4 http://tinyurl.com/bm9qvlz If you have something to say, then please come out with it.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 11:06AM

    I have an observation. The crime of genocide comes within the scope of Resolution 260 (III) A of the U.N. General Assembly on 9 December 1948. If the alleged Cornish genocide comes within the parameters of this resolution, has this been reported? If so, what has been the reaction, if any, of the U.N.? http://tinyurl.com/bssubxz

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 11:15AM

    i have read your link and found the link to the Carnegie Council most interesting. Cultural genocide of the Cornish, with speakers of the revived language on the rise? With children identifying themselves as Cornish at school? With The flag of St Piran flying from the "Royal Barge"? How can this be?

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 4:04PM

    An interesting perspective Tolgus. I s there now a genocide being comitted on the english forced to become cornishised?

  • KernowGB  |  June 30 2012, 4:16PM

    @Tolgus (re Saturday, June 30 2012, 11:06AM & Saturday, June 30 2012, 11:15AM) With respect, this has already been discussed on the "Cornish Genocide and the Truth?" thread, which I linked to in my previous response. Perhaps you might look there first for some answers, which might shortcut some previously made points from having to be repeated.

  • youngcornwall  |  June 30 2012, 4:35PM

    How can this be? It is too ridiculous for words. Anything to conjure up something to hate, but this time again, the genocide thread, has exposed and made a laughing stock of them and they wonder why people walked away from that thread lol. Come on all those who love Cornwall and want the best for Cornwall, time to ditch this barmy element that are in our midst, or should they be more pitied than laughed at.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 5:03PM

    With the greatest of respect, I have combed through "Cornish Genocide and the Truth", and I am still at a loss to discover any evidence of a "conspiracy", (political, social, or otherwise), to commit "cultural genocide", with the Cornish as victims. I totally accept that, in the past, monarchy and government, from England, have committed foul acts of genocide, not just within the British Isles. But in Cornwall? No in my opinion.

  • Tolgus  |  June 30 2012, 5:48PM

    "Is there now a genocide being committed on the English forced to become cornishised?" This may raise a more serious point about "fashion". It seems it is not "fashionable" to declare oneself "English". You can hardly blame people for "discovering non-English roots", when right-wing groups "hijack" what they see as "Englishness" to feed their fascist agendas, in my opinion.

  • everywhere  |  June 30 2012, 6:59PM

    nobody is walking away youngcornwall!!!..we are all reading your anti cornish garbage..yeah,taking it in, and knowing who the enemies of cornwall are..myself, i'm not a great one for debate with your type....unfortunately i cannot commit any of my views to this forum,,,it would have you and your goons screaming terrorists!!!..and dialing 999..But let me tell you this democracy has its limits...we all know the barriers that confronted angarrick,when trying to take on english state law..so let me say once more,,democracy has its limits!!!...

  • youngcornwall  |  June 30 2012, 7:25PM

    by everywhere "unfortunately i cannot commit any of my views to this forum,,,it would have you and your goons screaming terrorists!!!..and dialing 999..But let me tell you this democracy has its limits." I think you have said enough, you are right in one thing though, "myself, i'm not a great one for debate with your type" good keep it like that please.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 7:45PM

    Perhaps we English in cornwall should apply for european protection of our culture under 'framework convention for the protection of national minorities'. What do you think everywhere.

  • everywhere  |  June 30 2012, 8:05PM

    yes,youngcornwall...keep it that way..and keep your cheap brand of anti Cornish garbage to yourself...ok friend!!!...democracy you say!!!...your right is it, to try and grind the Cornish nation into the ground...we will not surrender to you, or anyone else!!!...remember!!!...

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 8:28PM

    Getting slightly off topic... am i alone in feeling that asking school children to classify themselves either ethnically , nationally , religously is totally unacceptable in a multi cultural society. No other place in the uk does this . I would expect an outpouring of outrage if it were introduced to a mixed community such as Londons east end. But in Cornwall its ok Personally i find it morally repugnant in the extreme. It seems to me an abuse of children whatever their heritage.

  • Chy_Howlek  |  June 30 2012, 8:40PM

    Yep English Trevorrow/Antbod - you are alone. 44% of school kids in this Country identify as Cornish and that number is growing and yes it is ok in Cornwall. And there's damn all you can do about it. But make sure you behave English or else a lot of your writing will disappear just like it did yesterday! Enjoy!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  June 30 2012, 9:22PM

    With respect Chy what practicle pupose does this '' survey'' serve? Unless there is a practicle demonstratable purpose is this not a perversion of the minors right to be allowed to reach an age of maturity before making such an assesment?? Think about it ...you would not subject children of northern ireland to a published survey on their religion or children in Tower hamlets as to their ethnicity...there would quite rightly be a massive backlash against the ABUSE of those children and their privaledge of innocence. Abuse is abuse....comitted on the innocent it is evil, morally repugnant and will come to haunt those who perpetrated it . churning out the results is missing the point .

  • KernowGB  |  June 30 2012, 10:02PM

    @Tolgus (re Saturday, June 30 2012, 5:03PM) It is indeed gratifying to know that you have "combed through" the Genocide Thread, but it is not surprising that you have discovered no evidence of a "conspiracy". That is possibly, because a "conspiracy" has never been stated or implied. I have simply provided evidence to back up the fact that Cornish Genocide, and culpability, exists. I would be interested to hear from your good self why you consider my evidence to be incorrect? With regard to your two previous posts @( Saturday, June 30 2012, 11:06AM & Saturday, June 30 2012, 11:15AM) you will have seen that I have referred to the '48 Convention as not being relevant to the Cornish Case, because of its imposed narrow limitations. Your references to the growing 'awareness' of the Cornish people to the value of their cultural attributes, in no way signals the absence of Cornish Genocide (nor the achievement of its ultimate objective), but is, in fact, a reaction to its existence and their desire to resist it. The underlying processes, however, are still in place and active. These little exchanges are, in fact, a part of this process.

  • H_Trevorrow  |  July 01 2012, 12:53AM

    be carefull what you wish for mike......

  • Tolgus  |  July 04 2012, 10:41AM

    "Your references to the growing 'awareness' of the Cornish people to the value of their cultural attributes, in no way signals the absence of Cornish Genocide (nor the achievement of its ultimate objective), but is, in fact, a reaction to its existence and their desire to resist it. The underlying processes, however, are still in place and active. These little exchanges are, in fact, a part of this process." just returned from a trip, to find this, "KernowGB". Do I take it that you regard my posts as "part of the process" of Cornish "genocide", as you call it? That,by my mentioning that Lemkin's researches did not appear to mention genocide of any type in Cornwall, I am somehow part of the "genocide" that you,(and you alone, it appears), see taking place?

  • KernowGB  |  July 04 2012, 5:26PM

    @Tolgus (re Wednesday, July 04 2012, 10:41AM) ------------------------------------------------- Tolgus said – "Do I take it that you regard my posts as "part of the process" of Cornish "genocide", as you call it? That,by my mentioning that Lemkin's researches did not appear to mention genocide of any type in Cornwall, I am somehow part of the "genocide" that you,(and you alone, it appears), see taking place?" -------------------------------------------------- Déjà vu definitiely springs to mind. I have posed a number of questions, above, for you to clarify, but which you seem intent upon ignoring. Yet, you seem to have picked up on a comment that was intended within a much broader meaning and context than just a discussion with someone using the name 'Tolgus'. Surely, if I meant you alone, then I would have said "This little exchange"? It is also unclear to me as to why you should particularly choose to relate that comment as being particularly relevant to your reference to Lemkin? For the record: I would consider any, and all, defense of the status quo within our Cornish Duchy to be 'a part of the process' especially where it is seen to be promoted as an apology for the system and/or a blind 'denial', or ignoring, of the evidence. I would also repeat, for everyone's consideration: If I am the only one that perceives that such a process exists, then why is there so much fuss about it? My last post gave an explanation as to how it is perceived in a subliminal way, but without the label. I have simply provided the correct label, under international and natural law for the process, as you will have seen on the "Genocide and the Truth?" thread.

  • Tolgus  |  July 04 2012, 5:48PM

    I do think you are alone with this. Having "Googled" the subject the whole thing about "Cornish cultural genocide" would appear to come down to people annoyed at anything beginning with "English", (English Heritage, English Nature, etc). Not the language, not the flag, not even the history. This is your "evidence"? I am discussing this, by the way, with someone called "KernowGB".

  • KernowGB  |  July 04 2012, 9:47PM

    @Tolgus (re Wednesday, July 04 2012, 5:48PM) It is noted that you again are not responding directly to my post! What is the point of your posting? Are you now saying that you lied about having "combed through" the Genocide Thread"? I would certainly cite "English Symbolism" as a key part of the process of Cornish Genocide, but it manifests itself in many ways, which is why "Cornish Symbolism" is necessarily a crucial part of the Cornish reaction and argument and why I posted a list of the offending misrepresentations on the "Genocide Thread" to give a comparison of how the process is operating in such an insidious way. I could easily add more. It is not clear how you could have come to such a bizarre conclusion that 'language', 'flag', or 'history' is not included - if you have genuinely "combed through" the Genocide Thread"? You are now, as I originally suspected, coming across as a very superficial and disingenuous individual. Do you have some sort of a problem with my username? If so, Why? Do you have some sort of problem with what I have provided as 'evidence'? If so, spell it out!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  July 04 2012, 10:05PM

    Tolgus as you are discovering the education of kgb is a futile task. Poor old KGB cannot accept that his 'percieved people' willingly embraced a more adsvantageous identity and integrated themselves by marriage , commerce and all other means. His rantings serve only to isolate himself and his neo celtic fantasists.

  • Slimslad  |  July 05 2012, 9:00AM

    "You are now, as I originally suspected, coming across as a very superficial and disingenuous individual." Well, you can take comfort in the fact that, at least you are not... "Delusional"

  • KernowGB  |  July 05 2012, 10:16AM

    And still the usual flawed-group venture out of the woodwork with nothing to say of substance. Education, when/if it happens will be only too obvious to all. Yes! Even to you. :) I have been waiting (to be 'educated') since the 26th March and it hasn't happened yet, from any of you lot!

  • Slimslad  |  July 05 2012, 2:35PM

    Hmmm.."Educated"? Let's see now... You are rude, pompous, narrow-minded and bigoted. How's that?

  • Slimslad  |  July 05 2012, 2:48PM

    This is priceless! Those on the "fringes",(shall we say), of Cornish nationalism, participated in a survey, with others. The survey was organized by "Hope Not Hate", (an-antifascist group.), and, basically, questioned folk on what they described themselves as,"British, English, Irish Scots, Welsh, Other) The neo-Celts rushed to put "Cornish" in the little box that said "Other". http://tinyurl.com/clf56hz Now they are all annoyed, when the survey comes out and they are described as "Other" http://tinyurl.com/bn22p4r Little flags do not maketh a nation, they just flutter in the breeze.

  • KernowGB  |  July 05 2012, 6:02PM

    A bit like your childish tongue, then, Slimslad, with nothing of substance to add to anything.

  • Slimslad  |  July 05 2012, 6:41PM

    i bow to your superior knowledge on "childish", Mr P.

  • EndUKRule  |  July 05 2012, 7:22PM

    Must be strange looking in from Newcastle. A fair old way as the cormorant flies ;-))))))

  • Slimslad  |  July 05 2012, 8:18PM

    Too much information! LOL

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