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“Civil liberties, Cornwall and the Cornish.

Excellent reading especially for the English who deny us our rights:

http://tinyurl.com/9o2hw8h

By Truro_Kernow Posted: October 30, 2012

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  • Big_Ger  |  October 30 2012, 7:59PM

    The only problem with that article is it totally fails to show any rights which the Cornish have been denied. So your reference to; "Excellent reading especially for the English who deny us our rights" is trite and meaningless.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  October 30 2012, 8:42PM

    A posting by Big_Ger. You couldn't make it up! Kernow bys vyken!

  • CallingtonFox  |  October 30 2012, 8:53PM

    This, small quote taken from the above link shows how easy it is to use an out of context historic reference: "This would seem to indicate that Cornwall was a Duchy, a county but not part of England." Note first the word "seem", seem does mean something is factual. Secondly note that the term 'county' is being accepted. Note thirdly this historical and extant fact which I reproduce below: "We, being willing to do more ample favour to the aforesaid Duke in his behalf, for the more abundant support of such honour, have granted for us and our heirs, Kings of England, Dukes of the said place in the Kingdom of England, hereditarily to succeed for ever…..'" Taken from the charter forming the Duchy, and how many times do I need to point this out, note well, the words "SAID PLACE in THE KINGDOM of ENGLAND…" Facts are facts. I am not denying anyone the right to call themselves whatever they wish but I am also not going to accept being told Cornwall is not a part of England when it factually is.

  • AnGof1955  |  November 06 2012, 12:08PM

    What CallingtonFox fails to mention is that where it says "SAID PLACE in THE KINGDOM of ENGLAND…" was in relation to Devon within that Charter. Further more the meaning of both Duchy and County which he thinks seem to mean part of England is not exactly right when you look at the Etymology of those words. At that time both Duchy and County could be the same as Country. One of the problems with looking at words like this is that we see them in todays meaning and not the meaning of the time at which they were written. The only facts are that there is absolutely no proof anywhere in any records whatsoever that Cornwall was ever made a part of England in any legal sense, or any other sense either.

  • AnGof1955  |  November 06 2012, 12:18PM

    A correction to my post. In that CallingtonFox posted: "We, being willing to do more ample favour to the aforesaid Duke in his behalf, for the more abundant support of such honour, have granted for us and our heirs, Kings of England, Dukes of the said place in the Kingdom of England, hereditarily to succeed for ever…..'" Taken from the charter forming the Duchy, and how many times do I need to point this out, note well, the words "SAID PLACE in THE KINGDOM of ENGLAND…" He took this completely out of context to what is written within the Charter. The meaning of said place in the kingdom of england was obviously about the succession and refers to England and not to Cornwall in any way. If he disputes this, I am perfectly prepared to post the whole of the Charter if he wants.

  • JJLee  |  November 06 2012, 12:25PM

    I wish my life was so dreary and monotonous, that it would allow me to vandalise the internet with twaddle. Sadly I leave this as my only attempt and move to rejoin the 21st century. It's been a laugh to thing how so much life is wasted fighting a lost cause

  • AnGof1955  |  November 06 2012, 12:37PM

    To JJLee. A long time ago i read an article which might give you some insight. In the article a University Professor said something along these lines. Winning or losing is not important, what is important is that you do the right thing.

  • youngcornwall  |  November 06 2012, 12:54PM

    "Winning or losing is not important, what is important is that you do the right thing." And making a fool of yourself at St Just over a flag, is not doing the right thing.

  • AnGof1955  |  November 06 2012, 1:20PM

    YC, it was obviously the right thing for those who did it and those that support them. Therefore it's a matter of perspective. Then I guess you support the idea of imposing a false identity on others to be the right thing.

  • JJLee  |  November 06 2012, 1:40PM

    Funny who many little revolutionaries think they are just in protesting, once you have had a dose of reality and no doubt unemployment, then you will see what is important and laugh at how easily led you have were. Passage of life - Hakuna Matata

  • youngcornwall  |  November 06 2012, 2:30PM

    by AnGof1955 "Then I guess you support the idea of imposing a false identity on others to be the right thing." I was born and bred in St Just and it has only been this 10 or 12 years since this Piran flag thing has come to the forefront, imposing this or anything else on anyone is wrong, so your guess is wrong.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 06 2012, 2:56PM

    AnGof1955 Tuesday, November 06 2012, 12:18PM "He took this completely out of context to what is written within the Charter. The meaning of said place in the kingdom of england was obviously about the succession and refers to England and not to Cornwall in any way. If he disputes this, I am perfectly prepared to post the whole of the Charter if he wants." Go ahead.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 06 2012, 3:10PM

    And Mr. AnGof1955, do not attempt to steal my country from me.

  • Carvath  |  November 06 2012, 3:36PM

    I indicates that CallingtonFox had misinterpreted the Duchy Charter some time ago (29 Oct) using Philip Payton unbelievably. Here's my message repeated from then: "Yes, Cornwall is administered as a county of England by Westminster [now a Unitary Authority] but is recognised as a Celtic nation by the Celtic League, Celtic Congress and the Governments of Wales and Man among others. So 'Cornish Nation' can be used as a description and 'Cornish' can be recorded on census and other official documents. Someone quoted Philip Payton's book, Cornwall- a History, which goes to great lengths, all 300+ pages, to show Cornwall was never regarded as an English county and passed from Earldom to Duchy, which constitutionally it still is within the UK[verified by Plaid Cymru and the Attorney General]." I've added the two comments in square parentheses.

  • Chopper8  |  November 06 2012, 3:41PM

    "And Mr. AnGof1955, do not attempt to steal my country from me." No on is stealing anything from you, Mr Fox. I don't see anybody here denying you the right to state your nationality, let alone refuse to acknowledge the existence of it. No,that course of action comes from one direction only, and it's certainly not from the Cornish. Oh the irony! When it comes to accusations of 'stealing countries',Mr Fox - do not deny me the existence of mine.

  • Taxman100  |  November 06 2012, 3:50PM

    CallingtonFox. I think the vast majority of those who are Cornish by birth, and/or others who live in Cornwall, would support your comment in full. The truth is, Cornish Nationalists often take things completely out of context; accepting gleefully that which suits their political mantra and stealth-fully sidestep or disregard anything which does not support it. What is the next debate? Is it Brown Willy, or Bronn xyz zzzz? It's Brown Willy!

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 06 2012, 4:03PM

    "recognised as a Celtic nation by the Celtic League" So what? Can you also prove to me now exactly what and who the 'Celts' were? Because unless you read from one source alone you will see that nobody has a definite answer to that question. However, of course you can describe yourself as whatever you wish, some people described themselves as Jedhi on the census returns. If you also believe that Philip Payton's book shows that Cornwall was never regarded as an English County then I suggest you reread it, it says nothing of the sort. Unless of course you want to read what suits you. He is also goes to great lengths to show both sides of the coin. Mr Chopper8, anyone who tells me that Cornwall is not a part of England is attempting to deny me my right to my country. You think I am being 'ironic' then show me the incontrovertible PROOF, that I am wrong.

  • Slimslad  |  November 06 2012, 4:37PM

    "but is recognised as a Celtic nation by the Celtic League, Celtic Congress and the Governments of Wales and Man among others." "Others"?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 06 2012, 4:41PM

    Taxman100, the thing that truly gets me is just how blinded they are by their own ideas. They so obviously fail to understand that others have access to the same sources as them and see things differently. I have taken great trouble to read their own evidence and I will continue to do so, but I am baffled as to how they appear to miss the undeniable flaws in their arguments

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 06 2012, 5:02PM

    Well said Carvath and Chopper 8. A view of the Cornwall Council timeline would do many here a service in terms of their education. Cornwall may be administered as a County but it is not. I might also add that like Scotland, Wales, Ireland and indeed England amongst others, Cornwall is also represented on the Council of the Isles in addition to the above points. I am Cornish not English. This is Cornwall not England. Kernow bys vyken!

  • Carvath  |  November 06 2012, 9:47PM

    Taxman100, I see 'Philistinism' creeping through on the Cornish Language, obviously something you know nothing about; weren't you the one, on a close-by thread, to completley confuse Britain with England?

  • Big_Ger  |  November 07 2012, 7:47AM

    "Cornwall is also represented on the Council of the Isles in addition to the above points." No it isn't, the Council of the Isles has the following members; Ireland Enda Kenny, Taoiseach, United Kingdom David Cameron,Prime Minister, Jersey Senator Ian Gorst Chief Minister, Guernsey Deputy Peter Harwood Chief Minister, Isle of Man Allan Bell, Chief Minister, Northern Ireland Peter Robinson, First Minister, Martin McGuinness, MLA deputy First Minister, Scotland Alex Salmond, First Minister, Wales Carwyn Jones, First Minister . But of course Cornwall is abley represented in the council of the isles by David William Donald Cameron Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, First Lord of the Treasury, Minister for the Civil Service and Leader of the Conservative Party, MP for Witney.

  • Big_Ger  |  November 07 2012, 8:41AM

    "Cornwall is administered as a county of England by Westminster [now a Unitary Authority] but is recognised as a Celtic nation by the Celtic League, Celtic Congress and the Governments of Wales and Man." The Celtic League and Celtic congress are nothing more than a bunch of self elected nobodies, (the Celtic conference was last held in a hotel with less than forty bedrooms!) Wales does not have a government, it has an assembly, and neither the Welsh assembly nor the Tynwald recognise Cornwall as an independent country, but they do recognise it as a county of England. Where do you guys get your information from, off the back of cornflake packets?

  • Slimslad  |  November 07 2012, 10:25AM

    But Cameron's daughter is Cornish-born.

  • Slimslad  |  November 07 2012, 10:32AM

    Kelloggs Kernow Kwotes? LOL

  • Taxman100  |  November 07 2012, 11:22AM

    Carvath. I have repeatedly said I do not have a problem, per sae, with the resurrected, yet dead, Cornish language. If an adult wishes to learn or study it, then that is fine; but it must not be imposed upon our children in schools, (which may be seen in some quarters as being a form of politically motivated child abuse) or those who would not wish to learn it. ie: not to be included on road signs, council forms etc., at cost to those who do not wish, or have no reason, to learn it. How many youths in Cornwall will get a job because they speak fluent Cornish? How many will get a job because the speak fluent English? I do not confuse Britain with England. Neither do I confuse the fact that Cornwall is a County within England. Slimslad. KKK is naughty. Those Nationalists will accuse you of racism; particularly if you tell them you wear Gandalf's hat when at the keyboard!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 07 2012, 11:46AM

    Regarding Big_Ger's highly inaccurate posting, I have every pleasure in quoting from official Cornwall Council documentation as follows: "The British Irish Parliamentary Association (BIPA) that is due to meet in the Isle of Man is different from the better known British - Irish Council. The BIPA was established in 1990 to specifically bring together members of the Irish and UK Parliaments and the British Irish Council was established in 1998 as a result of the Good Friday Agreement. The British Irish Council met together last month in Edinburgh and for the first time Cornwall was represented on the Council as an observer member. It was suggested that Cornwall became an observer member of the Council last year by the (Plaid Cymru) Welsh representative on the British Irish Council. Brittany is now the only Celtic country that does not have a presence on the British Irish Council. England emains unrepresented." Mr Andrew George, Liberal Democrat MP was the motivating force behind this. Well done Andrew! Big_Ger - you really couldn't make him up! Kernow bys vyken!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 07 2012, 11:53AM

    As a precursor to this appointment, Mr. George released the following press information: Request for place on Celtic assembly ST IVES MP Andrew George has put forward a bid for Cornwall to be accepted onto an assembly of Celtic nations. Mr George has asked the British-Irish Parliamentary Assembly to consider allowing Cornwall to have a place at future meetings, initially as an observer. The group was first set up in 1990 when members of the Oireachtas in Dublin and Parliament at Westminster agreed to meet regularly. In 2001 membership included the Scottish Parliament, Welsh Assembly, the Northern Ireland Assembly, the High Court of Tynwald on the Isle of Man and the States of Guernsey and Jersey. Now Mr George has asked the leader of Plaid Cymru Elfyn Llwyd to make inquiries to the council if Cornwall could be invited to future meetings. Mr George said: "Promoting Cornwall's distinctiveness is about cutting itself into the celebration of diversity rather than cutting itself off. "It would be a great boon to the newly established tier of government in Cornwall this week if a message were to be received from the British-Irish Council that, in view of Cornwall's special status and cultural heritage, it would be given an invitation to join others at the table of the British-Irish Council." It was Plaid Cymru's distinct pleasure to make this recommendation. Wales is subject to a Government of Wales - as instituted by the 2006 Act, Big_Ger - you just couldn't make him up! Kernow bys vyken!

  • KernowGB  |  November 07 2012, 11:57AM
  • Slimslad  |  November 07 2012, 12:54PM

    KernowGB's "proof" takes one to an obscure website, where the links to the "proof" do not work. More "smoke, myths and mirrors".

  • Taxman100  |  November 07 2012, 1:05PM

    TK. So, you want to attend a meeting that has no recognisable status; locally or internationally - it is equal only to the Muslim Parliament of GB. Surely, before any of these steps are taken by the various minority interest groups the people of Cornwall must be fully consulted and be permitted to express their views through the ballot box or referendum?

  • KernowGB  |  November 07 2012, 1:59PM

    @Slimslad (re Wednesday, November 07 2012, 12:54PM) Oh dear! I thought that you would have been interested in the observations of some more of your brother EIS types. :) If, as it seems, they have not kept their weblinks up to date, then it might suggest that you could/should communicate that fact to them. Nevertheless, you have, again, simply shown your inability to 'delve' and 'look' beyond your own narrow agenda.

  • Slimslad  |  November 07 2012, 2:13PM

    "Oh dear! I thought that you would have been interested in the observations of some more of your brother EIS types." "Brother EIS types"? You made me laugh, Mr. P!

  • Big_Ger  |  November 07 2012, 7:21PM

    Ah so the proof that Cornwall is not on the Council of the Isles is further supported by T-K showing us that, not only is it not a member, but that it's hasn't even yet been asked to send someone to watch, and Andrew George has asked if they can be allowed to have someone watch. Dear dear, why did you go out of your way to prove yourself wrong T-K.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 07 2012, 9:48PM

    Dr Loveday Jenkin attended the last meeting representing Kernow. Big_Ger and his pals - you really couldn't make them up! Kernow bys vyken!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 07 2012, 9:57PM

    Item 5.1.7 of minutes recorded by Cornwall Council 16th March 2012 and attended by: Bert Biscoe, Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Economic Forum Neil Burden, Cornwall Council (Chair) Ray Chubb, Agan Tavas Mina Dresser, Cussel an Tavaz Kernuak Bill Glanville, Federation of Old Cornwall Societies Loveday Jenkin, Kowethas an Yeth Kernewek Scott Mann, Cornwall Council Rod Lyon, Gorsedh Kernow Maureen Pierce, Kesva an Taves Kernewek Attending: Vanessa Beeman, Chair of the Use Working Group Nev Meek, Chair of the Status Working Group and Signage Panel Laurence Rule, Chair of the Corpus Working Group Viv Stevens, Government Office South West Pol Hodge, Education Officer Jenefer Lowe, Development Manager Elizabeth Stewart, Project Support Officer Mike Tresidder, Education Officer reads: British Irish Council A report byCoun. Dr. Loveday Jenkin, who attended a British & Irish Council seminar on language legislation, was tabled. It noted that the Partnership had been made very welcome as an observer at the seminar and that it was suggested that the Partnership, through the Status Group, could pursue some of the processes highlighted at the seminar. Big_Ger and mates - not in the know, not in Lys kernow, in fact, not in touch - you really couldn't make them up! Kernow bys vyken ! (posted this evening from the heart of Cornish Government - Lys Kernow - working late!)

  • Cadoc  |  November 07 2012, 10:30PM

    LOL! When talking of the Muslim Parliament of Great Britain in his usual sneering and dismissive tones, I bet the old Colonel - or was it 'half Colonel'? - must weep in his warm English beer after getting off his bicycle to watch a game of cricket, that the England he served is fast dying and that Shari'ah Law supersedes the law of his England in many parts of his country across the Tamar?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 07 2012, 10:37PM

    TK, whoever he might be, and his little chums, all talk and no proof. But keep posting, you are doing so many good things to help your 'cause'.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 07 2012, 11:26PM

    Hello Cadoc, you are so clever and witty, so entertaining. At least KernowGB attempts to debate things in a civil manner, but then, he is an adult.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 08 2012, 7:37AM

    I note with little interest the post made by CallingtonFox at 10:37PM last evening. Let us hope that this frustrated little rant is a little less ephemeral than his usual scribbles. If CallingtonFox believes that I have the time to write out the list of names and details of attendance at the meetings rather than merely cutting and pasting from agendas available to me then he is sadly mistaken. If CallingtonFox believes that I am required to prove anything in response to his evanescent posts, he is equally sadly mistaken. If CallingtonFox believes that I honestly care about his bleats, then again, he is mistaken. A litany of mistaken beliefs as is usual from the said poster. Kernow bys vyken!

  • Taxman100  |  November 08 2012, 10:59AM

    Cadoc. Like many of your nationalist friends you simply cannot stop being abusive; which does not enhance your political position. I can assure you I was never 'half' of anything. Neither, as you must have realised by now, do I do anything in halves! The list given by TK is simply a list of people who joined a 'talking shop' that has no legal recognition or authority - there are lots of such groups in existence. I would have a lot more respect for what you are attempting to do if you did so within the bounds of the democratic system ie: Obtain approval of the people for your nationalist actions via the ballot box. I have said it many times before, I have a lot of respect for Loveday Jenkins, but that does not mean I support the politics. Secondly, 'Our George'' is a political opportunist, and should be reminded he is only one of a number of MP's who represents our magnificent County of Cornwall; situated within the bounds of our Glorious and much celebrated England! No, I am not 'a little Englander' as I celebrate all that is good about the UK & Europe - which goes without saying does not include Cornish Nationalism or the corrupt, undemocratic, EU!

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 11:21AM

    Proven wrong again 'Little Corporal'? Cornwall is a Celtic Country on the island of Britain part of the European Union. Check your passport Taxman100 - observe the European Union inscription and the British Citizenship included. No mention of your England anywhere. Cornwall - a Nation of Europe and with a place on the British Irish Council by what I read above!

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 11:33AM

    Hi TK, thanks for your post.

  • Slimslad  |  November 08 2012, 2:28PM

    "Proven wrong again 'Little Corporal'? A little bit insulting, (even from the young an immature), in my opinion?

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 2:40PM

    A little bit insulting, (even from the young an immature), in my opinion?" A little irrelevant from someone who is from far, far away, a known troll, aged in his late 50's but still incredibly immature, whose opinion doesn't count and who can't spell 'and' don't you think?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 3:07PM

    "Cornwall is a Celtic Country on the island of Britain", leaving aside the fact that Cornwall is not a Celtic country and that nobody can even prove who or what the 'Celts' were, you also miss the following fact it seems: Great Britain is the Union of Scotland with England and via England, Wales. As recognised throughout the globe and by the United Nations. There is no mention of the 'country of Cornwall, why?: Because it is, and was, a part of England, prove me wrong.

  • Slimslad  |  November 08 2012, 3:24PM

    "A little irrelevant from someone who is from far, far away, a known troll, aged in his late 50's but still incredibly immature, whose opinion doesn't count and who can't spell 'and' don't you think?" That made me laugh!

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:21PM

    Professor Mark Stoyles: http://tinyurl.com/6v5enuh

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:22PM

    Wiki: The Kingdom of Cornwall http://tinyurl.com/36n5ca

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:23PM

    Cornwall Council 'Timeline of Cornwall: http://tinyurl.com/cvce2t9

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:51PM

    Cornwall is not England by Craig Weatherhill: http://tinyurl.com/9cwm7bg

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:53PM

    Wiki: Constitutional Status of ornwall http://tinyurl.com/9cwm7bg

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 4:54PM

    Visit Cornwall - note the frequent use of the word 'Celtic' and no mention of England: http://tinyurl.com/77fmu3m

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 4:58PM

    Yes, very nice links, thank you but I have already read the content of those some time ago. Love the use of 'wiki, we all know how reliable it is…… You see, I asked for PROOF, I suggest you acquaint yourself with the meaning.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:03PM

    Now, why not prove to me that Great Britain is not made up, solely, of the Union of Scotland and England and via England, Wales. NOT Scotland, Cornwall, England, Wales, no, but JUST Scotland, England and via England, Wales. Do you acknowledge that Cornwall is in Great Britain?

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:04PM

    Cornwall – A Background Paper John Kirkhope B.A. (Hons.), LL.B.(Hons.), Dip. N.P., TEP http://tinyurl.com/3a5l4sy

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:05PM

    After that, show me the proof regarding EXACTLY, who the Celts were

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:07PM

    The McKay Commission - tmc.independent.gov.uk LIBERAL DEMOCRAT PARLIAMENTARY TEAM FOR CORNWALL http://tinyurl.com/d9zc4g5

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:10PM

    Heritage is not English; it's ours By George Eustice MP http://tinyurl.com/d2qpsql

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:15PM

    A land apart: Why it never was and never can be a county of England: http://tinyurl.com/cvabjce

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:20PM

    Great, thanks, I have read all of those items as well, you see I want truth. You are not giving me proof. Have you ever taken the time to research from a non-biased position? I came to this entire topic wanting only to know the truth, and the truth is PROOF

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:21PM

    Who were the Celts? http://tinyurl.com/bqf59te

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:22PM

    Cornwall, Great Britain A Celtic Nation. http://tinyurl.com/8xolb5p

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:27PM

    On being a Cornish 'Celt': changing Celtic heritage and traditions in Cornwall by Dr Bernard Deacon https://eric.exeter.ac.uk/repository/bitstream/handle/10036/19179/OnbeingaCornishcelt.pdf?sequence=1

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:30PM

    by Cadoc Thursday, November 08 2012, 5:21PM "Who were the Celts? http://tinyurl.com/bqf59te" Is that all you can offer me? Have you read it yourself? You offer me that as proof?

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:31PM

    A short history of Cornwall: http://tinyurl.com/ch4otf8

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:32PM

    by Cadoc Thursday, November 08 2012, 5:22PM "Cornwall, Great Britain A Celtic Nation. http://tinyurl.com/8xolb5p" Read this links information too. Pathetic, truly pathetic.

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:33PM

    The Stannary Parliament: http://tinyurl.com/3ed3guu

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 5:39PM

    Books by the following: Prodessor Philp Payton Dr B Deacon Dr A Kent Craig Weatherhill Dr David Riley John Kirkhope - Constitutional Lawyer Judge Paul Laity

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:43PM

    You are being serious? Do you really think I have not seen all this? Have you ever taken the trouble to read it all with a critical eye and an open mind?

  • KernowGB  |  November 08 2012, 5:58PM

    @CallingtonFox (re Thursday, November 08 2012, 5:03PM) Without wishing to get involved in parallel discussion, I believe that it is right to point out that the British Union is a 'Union of Kingdoms' with the inclusion of the 'province' of Northern Ireland, and not a union, per se, of the individual nations of 'Scotland' and 'England'. Cornwall's attachment to the English Crown does not make our territory (or people) an integral part of England in any other sense than that it is a dominion territory of the Crown (whether English or British), in much the same way that such constitutional arrangements applied to, for example, the Channel Islands, or the historical territories on mainland Europe of which the king, at certain times became king or duke. The effort involved in seeking to suggest that it is otherwise, is, with respect, one of the many factors that continues to drive the processes of Cornish Genocide. ========================================= @CallingtonFox (re Thursday, November 08 2012, 5:05PM) Who the CELTS were is totally irrelevant to anything being discussed here. We are in the position, for better or worse, of living in a territory that, like a number of other territories, retain a language, which is described alternatively as 'Celtic', Brythonic, or Romano-British. This is reflected in our topography and language in a way that does not apply in England, because of the events of recorded history that established that clear demarcation and which brought us to the 'here & now'. It is a shame that the arguments cannot be presented free of 'posturing'.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 5:59PM

    Once more, go and look up the meaning of the word 'proof'. Please, for both our sakes.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 6:20PM

    Hiya KernowGB. "Cornwall's attachment to the English Crown does not make our territory (or people) an integral part of England..." You already know why I disagree with that statement. However I am aware that many 'types' of people a nation or country make; and I celebrate the parts all of England's counties including of course, Cornwall, have, and do, play in our collective history and culture. As for the relevance of the Celts, it would appear to matter to some people, according to the blowing of the debating wind, some, as you must be aware, use 'being Celtic' to stamp their authority and 'rights' to claim Cornwall as their own.

  • Big_Ger  |  November 08 2012, 7:40PM

    T-K claims that Cornwall is recognised by and part of "The Council of the Isles" his proof "Andrew George wrote a letter asking if we can watch them", and "Loveday Jenkins went to a seminar they organised, and told her mates on the council about it'! Thanks T-K, if any proof were needed that the nationalist crowd will snatch at any straw passing, then you've just given us it. Please do carry on, you're doing a fine job of embarrassing the nationalist crowd. I'll be writing to Manchester United asking if I can go watch them, and then I'll be going to a seminar in Manchester, after that I'll be (by your standards,) fully able to claim I played in goals for Manchester United! Here's the Council of the Isles website, http://tinyurl.com/b6zab3z Here's it's list of members; http://tinyurl.com/b6zab3zmember-administrations Member Administrations The British-Irish Council was established as part of the multi-party agreement reached in Belfast on 10 April 1998. Its membership comprises representatives from the Irish Government; British Government; Scottish Government; Northern Ireland Executive; Welsh Government; Isle of Man Government; States of Jersey and States of Guernsey. Hey look, it has a search facility, let's see what it has to say about Cornwall!! http://tinyurl.com/b6zab3zsearch/site/Cornwall Search found 0 items Cornwall Thanks T-K, Thanks for making it so easy to show that the nationalists live on myths and dreams.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 08 2012, 7:49PM

    You really are a ***** aren't you Big_Ger? I have reproduced verbatum from the Cornwall Council minutes! Try emailing Loveday and asking her if she was in attendance. Believe it or not *********. I really couldn't care less! No one could ever make you up! Kernow bys vyken!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 08 2012, 7:51PM

    Incidentally, I see that your beloved England isn't a member. Go tell that to your buddies down 'The Admiral'! Kernow bys vyken!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  November 08 2012, 8:13PM

    Big_Ger speaks the common sense us ordinary people know is right. TK ,as usual, is driven by an inferiority complex derived ,probably, from being the prodigy of a long line of failures inho.:]

  • Carvath  |  November 08 2012, 8:14PM

    Dear oh dear, I think that TK and Cadoc are winning by miles. At least they provide references rather than trotting out 'establishment dross'. 'Tis you guys that have to provide contrary proof while TK and Cadoc have provided their proof with copious referrals to other sources. Don't you detractors see that Cornwall's place and heritage is gaining by the minute with every overseas and local publication or news item?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 8:24PM

    by Carvath Thursday, November 08 2012, 8:14PM "Dear oh dear, I think that TK and Cadoc are winning by miles. At least they provide references rather than trotting out 'establishment dross'. 'Tis you guys that have to provide contrary proof while TK and Cadoc have provided their proof with copious referrals to other sources. Don't you detractors see that Cornwall's place and heritage is gaining by the minute with every overseas and local publication or news item?" Totally wrong, I have provided plenty of proof, all backed up with sources, real sources. All these two have done is provide what at best can could be called highly subjective evidence taken from personal opinions and historical writings that are also highly subjective, out of the all important historical contexts and very often those too are only contemporary personal opinions. None of it is proof. You also obviously do not understand the meaning of the word, proof.

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 8:26PM

    Perhaps 'Mr Blobby' as Big_Ger is referred to on FB might like to read this: "The British-Irish Council (BIC) is an international organisation established under .... also further expansion of the issues of British/Irish/Scottish/Manx/Cornish/etc ..." http://tinyurl.com/c4hksaz or this: http://tinyurl.com/bum983q or this: http://tinyurl.com/cp3mmur or maybe have a read of this: http://tinyurl.com/cbcwfha or perhaps he might like to read the Minutes of the Cornish Language Partnership meeting held on 16th March 2010 from 10am-12.30pm in the Council Chamber, Carrick House, Truro available on request. But knowing Big_Ger, as I now do, perhaps he is just too thick to bother!

  • H_Trevorrow  |  November 08 2012, 8:28PM

    aw bless! Carvath and his confidence massaging friends believe we are special.....and of course it gets some traction...who dose'nt want to be special.....alas they have no further foundation on which to base a better future...just an ego trip...sorry folks :]

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 8:29PM

    And the above poster is correct. England is not a member, not even an observer member because of course, England doesn't actually exist, does it? No English passport, driving licence. parliament, assembly or much else. Over to you 'Mr Blobby'. LOL

  • Carvath  |  November 08 2012, 8:54PM

    CallingtonFox, none of the references you have used are even verging on primary sources and are one-offs. Also your interpretation(s) of that (those) are completely misquoted and misunderstood. Rather than the 'you could'nt make it up' mantra you actually have. For example, KernowGB has not had a dialogue with you, he has completely run rings around you.

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 8:55PM

    'H Trevorrow' - another nasty little Englishman who adopts a Cornish name. Quiet at the boatyard today?

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 8:58PM

    I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 9:17PM

    by Carvath Thursday, November 08 2012, 8:54PM "CallingtonFox, none of the references you have used are even verging on primary sources and are one-offs. Also your interpretation(s) of that (those) are completely misquoted and misunderstood. Rather than the 'you could'nt make it up' mantra you actually have. For example, KernowGB has not had a dialogue with you, he has completely run rings around you." Then you have either not bothered to read or you just can not understand anything I have posted, you carry on being blinded by your own ignorance. I have quoted directly from primary sources in numerous threads now and not one of you has answered me or provided anything that is proof of your positions. You do not know what proof means it seems and you probably do not care. You really are not doing your cause any good.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 9:23PM

    by Cadoc Thursday, November 08 2012, 8:58PM "I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof." How old are you? Try dropping the playground/drunk teenager attitude and have a proper discussion. I was hoping to find some people on here with real, properly thought about, researched ideals etc, thank God for KernowGB, I might not agree with him but at least I know I am talking to a genuine person.

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 9:31PM

    I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof. Do you know the meaning of proof, CallingtonFox?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 9:50PM

    by Cadoc Thursday, November 08 2012, 9:31PM "I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof. Do you know the meaning of proof, CallingtonFox?" Yes, I do, but you do not, nor do you care, I suspect. All you are doing is proving your own ignorance, over and over again

  • Big_Ger  |  November 08 2012, 10:32PM

    "Try emailing Loveday and asking her if she was in attendance." Nobody doubts Miss Jenkins was in attendance T-K. I went on a seminar to discuss future trends in house development in the south west recently, that doesn't make me a brickie though. Your point, as ever is a load of nonsense. The council of the isles does not recognise Cornwall as an intendant nation, so you are either telling fibs, or grossly deluded, or both., In fact the council of the isles website doesn't recognise Cornwall at all. Andrew George can write as many letters as he likes to them, it matters not. Your insecurity about your Cornishness is on display for all to see when you have to fabricate such nonsense to try to support your cause. Please keep doing it t-k!!

  • Cadoc  |  November 08 2012, 11:04PM

    I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof. Do you know the meaning of proof, CallingtonFox?"

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 08 2012, 11:19PM

    by Cadoc Thursday, November 08 2012, 11:04PM "I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof. Do you know the meaning of proof, CallingtonFox?"" Yes, I do, but you do not, nor do you care, I suspect. All you are doing is proving your own ignorance, over and over again"

  • Big_Ger  |  November 09 2012, 10:59AM

    Seeing Caodc's last message makes it easy to remember there is nothing but hate and racism at the heart of all this Cornish nationalism.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 1:48PM

    As the subject of discrimination is such a serious one and many here, including myself, are being, in one way or another, accused of it at least by implication, I think it about time something was done. So I post here a link to the Equality and Human Rights Commission (EHRC) in order for complaints to be made in respect of said implied discrimination http://tinyurl.com/m7cq77 There are other organizations you can use too if you wish to look them up.

  • Cadoc  |  November 09 2012, 1:53PM

    No hate and racism on my part Mr Blobby. We do not commit illegal wars and destruction on others, now do we? Now again, I would like to see proof that England and the English exist. I can't find any official documents anywhee to say that it/they do. A grey nothingness over the Tamar. Not even their own personal documents. I want to see proof, real proof. Do you know the meaning of proof, CallingtonFox? Do what you will Mr Fox. I for one don't care about you.

  • Slimslad  |  November 09 2012, 2:03PM

    Craig/Cadoc/Rosco makes me laugh.

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 09 2012, 2:58PM

    This just in from the British Irish Council: "Thank you for your enquiry. Dr Loveday Jenkins attends the Indigenous, Minority and Lesser- Used Languages work sector as an observer participant as Cornwall has observer status on the Council but not all BIC work sectors involving Irish affairs. Also, thank you for reporting the contact link which I've referred to our technical support. Regards, Pat Allan Secretariat Kernow bys vyken!

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 09 2012, 3:00PM

    That's good 'Slimslad'. In addition to 'Cadoc' I am sure you will be gratified to know that you cause much hilarity elsewhere too! Indeed, you and some other posters here feature greatly on certain Facebook sites but I has better not reveal to much here! Crikey, talk about much being revealed! Kernow bys vyken!

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 3:23PM

    Cadoc, it is not me who I posted the link for, it is you and your fellow 'oppressed' I am challenging you to follow up on your accusations and get justice done. I am happy knowing that Cornwall is a part of England but clearly you and some others are not happy and feel you are being denied your rights, so do something about it or are you too scared of the real truth?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 3:31PM

    If the above post from me goes missing we will all know how unconvinced Cradoc and co. are by their own arguments/position.

  • Taxman100  |  November 09 2012, 3:59PM

    CallingtonFox. Hear, hear! Every one of the links placed are from the likes of the Celtic League etc.: organisations which have no standing or legality whatsoever - except within the minds of those who believe they are in some way different to everyone else, and are being deprived of something, but we know not what! We live in the same County and are not being deprived. British, Irish Council? Celtic League? etc., etc., I have heard more sensible debate and comment in my local pub. What I do know, and not from casual observation on this Forum, is there are not very many Cornish Nationalists around the County. They attempt to convince us differently, but everywhere you look you find the same aliases and second aliases being used, and the same names attached to documents (that's documents of no consequence to anyone). In another thread within this forum I found the comments used by certain members had all been plagiarised from other Nationalist sites - some of which appeared to have been around since the days of the Celts. They also 'rehearse' their replies! I suggest we totally ignore their 'rabbit, rabbit, rabbit' and debate matters of real relevance and importance to the people of Cornwall?

  • Cadoc  |  November 09 2012, 5:34PM

    Shouldn't you be busy polishing up your bling for its annual airing Corporal? When last I looked, although I am not a member, I see the Celtic League have recognition from the United Nations. Cornwall has observer status at the BIC. There are over 650 Bards in the Gorsedh, 25+ MK councillors who must have been elected by someone, countless independent Councillors who are Cornish patriots and Lib Dem MPs who take their oath in Cornish amongst other things. Almost as many as in your fast dwindling and criminal army perhaps? I am still waiting for your comments on the raft of legal actions against your contemptible little army for war crimes around the world inidentally. You know, the one that dishes out meaningless bling for overseas murder?

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 5:34PM

    They know full well that they are in the wrong. I Posted a legitimate link to a real organisation that will act with impartiality, this puts us ALL in the firing line but Cadoc and co. are too scared to contact them.

  • Cadoc  |  November 09 2012, 5:37PM

    PS. If Newcastle little fishy thinks that 'cweatherhill' (renowned Cornish author) and 'Rosko' are one and the same (from Cornwall24) he is very sadly mistaken. Don't forget Corporal and friends, you every posting on here is read and then taken back to FB groups and analysed.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 5:45PM

    by Cadoc Friday, November 09 2012, 5:37PM "PS. If Newcastle little fishy thinks that 'cweatherhill' (renowned Cornish author) and 'Rosko' are one and the same (from Cornwall24) he is very sadly mistaken. Don't forget Corporal and friends, you every posting on here is read and then taken back to FB groups and analysed." That is the first time you have made me laugh! Report me/us to the relevant authorities (not your made up ones) I mean like the E.H.R.C and let us see who really needs to be worried.

  • Slimslad  |  November 09 2012, 7:47PM

    "PS. If Newcastle little fishy thinks that 'cweatherhill' (renowned Cornish author) and 'Rosko' are one and the same (from Cornwall24) he is very sadly mistaken." Not the "historian",(?) Craig. Truro Craig. LOL

  • Truro_Kernow  |  November 09 2012, 8:19PM

    I think it would refer to Craig Weatherhill, author, architect and historian whose books are read in schools, particularly 'Cornovia'. I don't know who 'Rosko' is. Does he post here? And you are 'Slimslad'? - Anyone of note............? I have also collated several comments from this site and indeed others. Indeed, I have a complaint current registered at the PCC about another newspaper. Would you like a copy of their contact details, 'CallingtonFox'? Hope you all enjoyed reading my copy of an email received today from the BI C. Cornwall my Country, Cornish my National Identity - as recorded on the last census by full consent and encouragement of Lys Kernow. Kernow bys vyken!

  • Slimslad  |  November 09 2012, 8:27PM

    And you are 'Slimslad'? - He is not, young red.

  • Big_Ger  |  November 09 2012, 8:33PM

    ob·serv·er noun 1. someone or something that observes. 2. a delegate to an assembly or gathering, who is sent to observe and report but not to take part officially in its activities. You have to laugh, I have observer status at Pirates Matches, but according to T-K that makes me a Pirates player!!!

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 09 2012, 8:48PM

    "I have also collated several comments from this site and indeed others. Indeed, I have a complaint current registered at the PCC about another newspaper. Would you like a copy of their contact details, 'CallingtonFox'?" The 'Press Complaints Commission' or the 'Police Complaints Commission' or maybe the 'Parochial Church Council'? Anyway, no idea why you want to contact them about 'discrimination' and 'abuse of your rights' you will be much better contacting an organisation like the E.H.R.C because, you see, they are better placed to deal with such things. Unless of course, you like the other friends of yours know that you do not have a case.

  • Slimslad  |  November 09 2012, 9:02PM

    Or...? http://tinyurl.com/ytz9fz Tee-hee.

  • CallingtonFox  |  November 12 2012, 4:09PM

    This is probably the best organisation: http://tinyurl.com/ck298c7

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